Scale Models - View Single Post - Mig-21 P/f "fishbed" Nva

**GEEDUBBYA** · 22-01-2008

Howdy Jeff,

Lol, well you ran across a problem that I have dealt with for years. You find a primer that fills gaps and seams, but it also destroys the detail.

I have tried and tried to solve this problem before when using spray cans of primer, I like they way they fill the gaps, but like you said it fills in everything else too. I tried sanding but found that I did as much damage as the paint did....so I stopped that.

What I did discover though is that if you use cyno-acrylate esther (super-glue) as an adhesive for your models, you can eliminate alot of gaps while you are still in the building phase. Heres how.

Normally I will pre-paint various parts prior to assembly but it doesnt matter if you do this or not. During assembly lets say of two fuselage halves, I apply the super glue along one half and hold the two halves together until they bond.....this is when you will inevitably notice a gap somewhere along the seam line. What I do next is to spread a very fine line of superglue over the gap lengthwise and then using a fingernail file (very fine grit), while the glue line is still wet, I file gently across the seam and glue. This produces dust that the glue grabs ahold of and the filing action forces it into the gap or seam and the glue dries right away leaving you with a seamless bond. This works when assembling two halves of a wing too (along the leading edge which always seem to have a small gap).

Now for the area where a wing mates with the fuselage, I usually take a bottle of elmers school glue and apply a thin line along the length of that joint, then taking the side of my little finger (when it will fit) I slide my finger all the way down that seam, removing the excess white glue and forcing the glue into the joint. A paint brush end,not the brush end will do the same thing. This leaves you with a nice "seamless" appearance once the white glue dries. However, the white glue is not for use on a model to be painted silver lol, the white glue will show up even though its dry.

Now I am guilty of failing do the super glue/dust trick on alot of my "speed builds" but do occassionally go back after final assembly and before painting and touch up alot of the gaps in this manner.

Once you have completed all the "glue tricks", you are ready for painting. Unless you are doing a model in a "silver-toned" color, I usually dont worry about a primer,(Always prime silver paint with a HIGH GLOSS BLACK paint ). I am more apt to use a primer as a finished color on my models. If you notice alot of military aircraft are a "primer gray" or flat colors. If you are doing camo patterns I usually go from lightest to darkest but may vary depending on the complexity of the pattern. Camo patterns create their own "primer" so to speak, with one color covering another.

Ok so lets say you complete the model and the paint dries and you notice another gap that you have missed. My advice would be to keep a can of Testors Dull-cote and a can of testors Gloss cote handy (although I have come to like their clear gloss laquer lately). But anyway, you find a gap, do like stated above, and spread a thin line of super-glue along the length of the gap, and lightly file it again with the finest grit you can find in a fingernail file. Or, I have had good results using talcum powered sprinkled into the wet glueand filing lightly since this is the finished paint job you are filing on. Again, this fills the gap. Then I go to the spray can containing the color of the area where the gap was and shake it well, and then spray some into the cap or lid of the can. I then go back with a ultra fine brush and paint the "filled in" seam or gap. Once that is dry, I use the dull cote or gloss cotes over the entire model again, sealing the paint and repairing the marred finish caused by the sanding.
SPECIAL NOTE: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GET TESTORS DULL COTE OR GLOSS COTE ON CLEAR PLASTIC PARTS, IT WILL DESTROY THEM. ( The testors clear high gloss laquer doesnt seem to marr the finish of clear plastic parts though).The only way i have found to repair a clear part that has become "fogged" by an overcoat is to take CLEAN, FRESH model paint thinner on a fine brush and paint the thinner on the part in question and wipe gently with a paper towel. What this does is to disolve the overcoating and the paper towel will remove it. But be careful not to apply too much thinner to a clear part, it will on occassion melt the plastic and the paper towel fibers will stick to it.

Now as for the detail, like i said, this is a problem i have encountered for years and the best way i have found to avoid the paint filling in the detail is to follow the can instructions and add 2-4 inches to the distance you are supposed to spray the paint from the part being painted. Most cans say 12-14 inches , 16 to 18 inches is better, you are basically "misting" the part with paint, so as that it cant puddle up along the detail edges...this also speeds drying time in my opinion although i have no proof of it, but i believe that by spraying froma greater distant, the paint dries somewhat in the air before adhering to the part.

Short of an airbrush, spray on paint will always give less than perfect results, its all a matter of what you are willing to sacrifice for the luxury of not having to thin paint and load your airbrush over and over with various colors. lol But there again, if i break out my airbrush, i try to paint as many parts on as many models that require that color as I can. I might only build one model, but the next model wont require me to break out the airbrush again...atleast not for that color. Another thing i have found is that having both internal and external mix airbrushes are a must. the double action internal mix airbrush is great and gives you complete control of the paint volume, but, the external mixed, single action airbrush allows you to buy extra individual paint jars with lids which allow you to change out only the jars of paint instead of having to clean the airbrush with each color change as on the double action internal mix airbrush.
I have probably 15-20 external airbrush paint jars most of which i keep filled with single colors straight from the factory bottles. there are a few mixed color jars with 'special tints" of various colors that I keep since i had to go to all the trouble to mix the paint. If the jars remain sealed, the thinner in the paint wont evaporate and only requires shaking to remix the pigments. But, if the paint has thickened and wont spray properly, you can always take some of that "thinner" that you keep for clear parts lol and add abit to the jar of thickend paint to thin it abit.

But seriously, a cheap inexspensive external mix airbrush with seperate paint jars is the way to go if you build many models or use the same colors over and over. It may require a little more space to store the jars, but if you are a modeller, you wont notice any lack of space cause you probably dont have any empty space anyway lol.

I hope this answered your questions or provided you with something you can use. I am sure others might comment on this topic,

Have a good day,

Greg

22-01-2008	#10 (permalink)
GEEDUBBYA Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pine Bluff, Arkansas Real Name: Greg My Models: model planes tanks and helicopters as well as missiles and rockets Visit GEEDUBBYA's Gallery Posts: 1,002 Images: 329	*Howdy Jeff,* *Lol, well you ran across a problem that I have dealt with for years. You find a primer that fills gaps and seams, but it also destroys the detail.* I have tried and tried to solve this problem before when using spray cans of primer, I like they way they fill the gaps, but like you said it fills in everything else too. I tried sanding but found that I did as much damage as the paint did....so I stopped that. *What I did discover though is that if you use cyno-acrylate esther (super-glue) as an adhesive for your models, you can eliminate alot of gaps while you are still in the building phase. Heres how.* Normally I will pre-paint various parts prior to assembly but it doesnt matter if you do this or not. During assembly lets say of two fuselage halves, I apply the super glue along one half and hold the two halves together until they bond.....this is when you will inevitably notice a gap somewhere along the seam line. What I do next is to spread a very fine line of superglue over the gap lengthwise and then using a fingernail file (very fine grit), while the glue line is still wet, I file gently across the seam and glue. This produces dust that the glue grabs ahold of and the filing action forces it into the gap or seam and the glue dries right away leaving you with a seamless bond. This works when assembling two halves of a wing too (along the leading edge which always seem to have a small gap). Now for the area where a wing mates with the fuselage, I usually take a bottle of elmers school glue and apply a thin line along the length of that joint, then taking the side of my little finger (when it will fit) I slide my finger all the way down that seam, removing the excess white glue and forcing the glue into the joint. A paint brush end,not the brush end will do the same thing. This leaves you with a nice "seamless" appearance once the white glue dries. However, the white glue is not for use on a model to be painted silver lol, the white glue will show up even though its dry. Now I am guilty of failing do the super glue/dust trick on alot of my "speed builds" but do occassionally go back after final assembly and before painting and touch up alot of the gaps in this manner. Once you have completed all the "glue tricks", you are ready for painting. Unless you are doing a model in a "silver-toned" color, I usually dont worry about a primer,(Always prime silver paint with a HIGH GLOSS BLACK paint ). I am more apt to use a primer as a finished color on my models. If you notice alot of military aircraft are a "primer gray" or flat colors. If you are doing camo patterns I usually go from lightest to darkest but may vary depending on the complexity of the pattern. Camo patterns create their own "primer" so to speak, with one color covering another. Ok so lets say you complete the model and the paint dries and you notice another gap that you have missed. My advice would be to keep a can of Testors Dull-cote and a can of testors Gloss cote handy (although I have come to like their clear gloss laquer lately). But anyway, you find a gap, do like stated above, and spread a thin line of super-glue along the length of the gap, and lightly file it again with the finest grit you can find in a fingernail file. Or, I have had good results using talcum powered sprinkled into the wet glueand filing lightly since this is the finished paint job you are filing on. Again, this fills the gap. Then I go to the spray can containing the color of the area where the gap was and shake it well, and then spray some into the cap or lid of the can. I then go back with a ultra fine brush and paint the "filled in" seam or gap. Once that is dry, I use the dull cote or gloss cotes over the entire model again, sealing the paint and repairing the marred finish caused by the sanding. SPECIAL NOTE: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GET TESTORS DULL COTE OR GLOSS COTE ON CLEAR PLASTIC PARTS, IT WILL DESTROY THEM. ( The testors clear high gloss laquer doesnt seem to marr the finish of clear plastic parts though).The only way i have found to repair a clear part that has become "fogged" by an overcoat is to take CLEAN, FRESH model paint thinner on a fine brush and paint the thinner on the part in question and wipe gently with a paper towel. What this does is to disolve the overcoating and the paper towel will remove it. But be careful not to apply too much thinner to a clear part, it will on occassion melt the plastic and the paper towel fibers will stick to it. Now as for the detail, like i said, this is a problem i have encountered for years and the best way i have found to avoid the paint filling in the detail is to follow the can instructions and add 2-4 inches to the distance you are supposed to spray the paint from the part being painted. Most cans say 12-14 inches , 16 to 18 inches is better, you are basically "misting" the part with paint, so as that it cant puddle up along the detail edges...this also speeds drying time in my opinion although i have no proof of it, but i believe that by spraying froma greater distant, the paint dries somewhat in the air before adhering to the part. Short of an airbrush, spray on paint will always give less than perfect results, its all a matter of what you are willing to sacrifice for the luxury of not having to thin paint and load your airbrush over and over with various colors. lol But there again, if i break out my airbrush, i try to paint as many parts on as many models that require that color as I can. I might only build one model, but the next model wont require me to break out the airbrush again...atleast not for that color. Another thing i have found is that having both internal and external mix airbrushes are a must. the double action internal mix airbrush is great and gives you complete control of the paint volume, but, the external mixed, single action airbrush allows you to buy extra individual paint jars with lids which allow you to change out only the jars of paint instead of having to clean the airbrush with each color change as on the double action internal mix airbrush. I have probably 15-20 external airbrush paint jars most of which i keep filled with single colors straight from the factory bottles. there are a few mixed color jars with 'special tints" of various colors that I keep since i had to go to all the trouble to mix the paint. If the jars remain sealed, the thinner in the paint wont evaporate and only requires shaking to remix the pigments. But, if the paint has thickened and wont spray properly, you can always take some of that "thinner" that you keep for clear parts lol and add abit to the jar of thickend paint to thin it abit. But seriously, a cheap inexspensive external mix airbrush with seperate paint jars is the way to go if you build many models or use the same colors over and over. It may require a little more space to store the jars, but if you are a modeller, you wont notice any lack of space cause you probably dont have any empty space anyway lol. *I hope this answered your questions or provided you with something you can use. I am sure others might comment on this topic,* *Have a good day,* *Greg* Last edited by GEEDUBBYA; 22-01-2008 at 02:24.