1/7 Scale HMS Victorious R38 - Page 3

jankers · 10-07-2007

A possible solution to the lifts would be to use the old style "scissor jacks" (car type).

I do not know if there go the the height required ( i don't have a car), but they should be stable and would certainly take the load.

J.

Task Force 57 · 10-07-2007

When you start "scale" modling with a 106ft carrier I think your main problem will be time and over attention to detail. this sounds like a 10year project to me at the very least!!!!!

However, this aside i can only applaud your intent and advice you to spend some time at the navel archive, imperial war museam and the patent office. the Illustrious class carriers did undergo a wide range of in-service upgrades during the war years, between 41 and 45 Victorious had four major refits. Id start with a cool little paperback book called "Victorious the world over" written by a sailor who stayed with her from commisioning to his demob in 46, he gives the dates for all the war refits and the yards she was kitted out in...and you can choose the exact period/fit you think wil be best suited and search for the appr documents. I'd also suggest getting hold of "Aircraft carriers of WWII" by conway chatham publ as well as the now long out of print "profile Morski" and "Warships in profile" editions on illustrious class carriers. the last book id look at is called "Task Force57" which documnets the pacific fleet from creation to VJ day... it has some VERY good pic's of the Vic and her half sisters of the indomidable type.

As for Catapults... id suggest that a scale version of a steam catapult might be a bit awkward, perhaps a co2 cannister on a microswitch might be less potentialy hazardous?

If you get very stuck let me know... I have about 100 good pics of these carriers as im a HUGE pacific fleet buff.

regards TF57 (aka Russ)

ps. For a clean and less cluttered model i would go for a 1941 (bismark era) Victorious... Less triple A mountings and a much simpler deck layout and bridge. The Hazagawa waterline Vic kit is great for upperworks detail whilst the old airfix kit (bless its heart) will give you a clean and uncluttered hull pattern. As for the Actual builders plans..if you have trouble (and im betting you will) with the records office id try the Victorious Vets association... you be amazed what some of the old buggers have tucked away or know how to get copies of...

duncan · 12-07-2007

...the completion date is still April 1st ?

DavieTait · 12-07-2007

I was wondering that Duncan , seems a bit strange for anyone to want to built a 106ft "model" just so they can fly r/c aircraft off/on it.

I know there are a few very large manned "models" ( one of the Graff Spee ) in the USA but there's absolutely nothing on this scale.

I wouldn't even contemplate the costs of building a 1/7th scale model of my families old 87ft trawler !!!

To get a 106ft "model" to the required safety levels would require commercial building methods in steel or grp , powered by 2 large marine diesels ( 106ft even lightly built will be over 100t ) of over 400hp just to get anywhere close to 8 knots any faster than say 10knots would need a pair of 650hp engines.

If you want to estimate the cost in fuel well 2 400hp engines at 100% power would be burning 70ltr/15.5 uk gallon per hour at a minimum and a pair of 650hp engines 114ltr/25.2 uk gallon per hour

I'll stick to 1/24th and 1/32nd models thanks

alan2525 · 13-07-2007

I'm always suprised by how much larger a model becomes everytime you scale it up by a factor - with the volume being cubed...

...most things would be pretty large at 1/7th scale! Let alone an Aircraft Carrier - I can't really imagine the size of the thing but it sounds like a worrying concept to me.

I'm sticking to 1:35th for now too...

I still need to make some form of glass cabinet to store the stuff I have!

Albion · 13-07-2007

If you sit down and think of it objectively, there are more reasons than I could ever possibly write of why a person SHOULDN'T build a 106 ft scale model of Victorious. Just to get an idea of how worried I am, about once a day I take a little army figure and place it next to a small model carrier, to get an idea of the scale, and every time I walk right out of the room and do something else for a while. But sooner or later I go back in and start working out the details again. Personally, I would love to see a 1/7 scale model of this ship be built. I know very well the costs involved, I know it will be expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and expensive to operate. I also know that it will be worth it.
Construction for reasons of cost and simplicity will be a composite of double diagonal planking over laminated wood keel and steel frames.
At 1/7 scale, the model of HMS Victorious will displace 85 tons, be 106 ft long overall, have a beam of 13 ft 7 inches at the waterline and have a draft of 4 ft. Propulsion will be in the form of three diesels producing approximately 700hp which will be sufficient for the ship to reach 20 knots. Much of the speed of a displacement hull is a direct result of its waterline length, and less a result of its shape. Luckily, this particular model has a very lean underwater profile, greatly increasing its efficiency under power.
I am very much aware of the extreme size with which I am working, and that I could probably reduce the scale to 1/12 and still fly rc aircraft from it. To do so however, would, in my view limit the models functionality. It would be difficult to operate the aircraft from the ship itself, not to mention eliminating outright any on board accommodations. These factors aside, a couple of new technologies are emerging for rc aircraft that would only be practical in the larger scale.
Launching will be on or about April 1 next year, the completion date is a couple years after that.

duncan · 13-07-2007

Go to http://perso.orange.fr/bernard.joannes/bateau.htm The builders of the original gave this chap some assistance, perhaps Vickers` successors BAE might help ? There are many pages on this site, not sure if English version is as detailed as the French. Many pictures so it isn't too hard to follow. Flying models from the carrier is easier than from elsewhere , just get your head down at last second in case it is a "bolter". Swordfish would be best or foamies if Corsairs etc. What new technologies ? Guidance systems from RPV/UMA, spot landing assist? The rebuild/conversion of my Invincible isn't relevant here, it is only(!) 31ft long and a botch-up from what was a stage-prop. Its sole purpose was to fly R/C planes on and off, much smaller profile foamies. At 100ft I think the link above is more appropriate. Think real boat and you get the idea. Model aircraft at the correct scale are readily available,some even RTF, including Zeros for an attacking force. Could be a nice scenario with smoke and bombing, gunfire etc.

alan2525 · 13-07-2007

I still think it should be 1/6th scale so you can use GI Joe / Action Man figures on deck! Also there's a whole range of Authentic Uniforms etc. Plus it'll make for a lot more useable room for the R/C Aircraft pilots to operate from.

Whats another 20 feet or so in length on a 106 ft long boat?

1/7 sounds like a compromise to me!

duncan · 13-07-2007

Albion; neu@carrierbuilders.net might be interested in your plans. www.carrierbuilders.net

Albion · 14-07-2007

Thanks for the link duncan, that is an incredible model. As for recovering aircraft with my head out the elevator well, I'm certain that I would be the fellow shown on the evening news being carried off in a stretcher with a model plane sticking out of his forehead.
The technologies I referred to are onboard real time cameras, sensors, and long range transmitters (i.e being able to send the plane off over the horizon), plus a few other neat concepts. All these options would be better suited for larger scale planes. Besides, I will need to navalize the aircraft by adding internal flotation, waterproofing the electronics, and strengthening the fuselage, these tasks would be easier with a larger scale plane.
As I said earlier, I intend to build a mock up of the island first, this will help me determine if that structure at 1/7th scale will be large enough to house command and control functions, if not then I have two options, either increase the scale to 1/6 ( and somehow find the space) or chose a different carrier class ( a rather difficult option since I am very much attached to HMS Victorious in particular).
Staging air and naval battles at this scale would be impressive. If only someone out there wanted to build a 1/7 scale HIJMS Ryujo or Zuiho the possibilities would be endless.