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Old 19-05-2006   #11 (permalink)
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i guess i got to this thread a bit late!

have to say i aggree with all of your points!

its is stupid, one day soon everyone is going to realise how wrong we it has all gone!

Barry, not only was it tilted 45 degrees, the bit on the ends also pointed in the opposite direction!!!

Quote:
Even mass genocide had been going on long before he started
take the azteks...they used to kill hundreds of people a year just so it would rain!!!!
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Old 20-05-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee captain
They are banned in Germany

We had a rant about it here before.
they are banned in my country, the Netherlands, too, always have been since 1945!!
Over here, one is still associating it with the Nazi Germany occupation of our country 1940-1945, and I hope it will be banned for another long time!

cheers,
Jan
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Old 21-05-2006   #13 (permalink)
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Im not having a go, but what does banning it achieve?

People who want to misuse it, will continue to misuse it regardless what the law says.

Anyways, i'll need to look for some of these swastika decals sometime as i just picked up an FW190 kit
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Old 21-05-2006   #14 (permalink)
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Smile

Whereas I can understand the revulsion caused by such a symbol amongst people who had to endure the consequences of it I think it is more important to prevent such atrocities from reoccurring. Hiding it will neither make it go away nor will it prevent such things happening again.

Obviously banning it is an attempt to prevent the resurgence of such political ideals but I don't think for a minute it would stop it and, looking at it completely objectively, isn't banning something like that an attempt to control peoples political beliefs and ideals which was what the symbol stood for in the first place?

I believe we should be open, honest and objective about our past, learn from such things and make every effort to ensure that they do not happen again. We must all face up to such symbols and deal with them responsibly, banning them will never let us do that.
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Old 21-05-2006   #15 (permalink)
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In regard to aftermarket swastika decals, is there anywhere else in the UK that sell them apart from this place?

http://www.aeroclub-models.com/p.html?n=0&c=EXD02

They do a couple of other sheets, both described the same, but different prices. Does anyone know if these are any good?

Reason i asked if there was anywhere else in the UK was because theres a minimum £5 order on there, and i dont need multiple sheets, just the one would do me.
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Old 21-05-2006   #16 (permalink)
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Old 24-08-2006   #17 (permalink)
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The whole thing is stupid -

I had to buy from a Dealer , the Kriegsmarine Flag for a Model .

Cost a bit , as it was made in Silk , but well worth every penny .

The thing is , the Publishers have now started to obscure the Flag in Books , eg Graf Zeppelin Carrrier by Breyer

What next - Re-writing History is as dangerous as anything else .....

See Japan Post-War -

Never really admitted ( post war ) to mistakes and genocide or warcrimes
esp in History Books
regards david
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Old 24-08-2006   #18 (permalink)
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Hi guys,

i wrote all your posts verry interested. And i agree, prohibition by law doesnīt change the facts!

The problem in here in germany is, that there are still some dumb guys, who are meaning Adolf will return, he is still alive (like Elvis). And our dumb politicians (are they really intelligent anywhere?) and lawyers thoght, if we restrict the symbols, we will hit them. So, since the mid seventies, you canīt get a model in germany, with exact decals.

Itīs really stupid. If you build your model with swastikas, and you show it public, you will be visited by the fedīs, but if you show it in a museum, it is ok!

And for the publishers itīs mostly too expensive, to offer two versions, especially, because they canīt controll, where it finally will be sold.

A short time ago, here in germany a student was in trouble, because he has worn a button, showing a criss-crossed swastika! The lawyers said, the criss-cross is ok, but the swastika in the background is against the law.

Iīs stupid, but itīs existing law in germany, and some other countries.

For example, if i would build a plane, or whatever, with swastikas on it, i mustnīt show in in a german forum, without repainting in photo-shop. The original pictures could only be posted in an english or american forum.

Best wishes from Bavaria

Ralf
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Old 24-08-2006   #19 (permalink)
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Howdy Guys and Gals,

The following is taken from: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n2p34_Desjardin.html

How Dangerous is the Swastika?

Dan DesjardinSince 1945 the swastika has been banned in Germany, where symbols, songs, pictures, slogans and even greetings associated with the Hitler era can earn the offender a stiff fine or even a prison term.
Of course the swastika was hardly unique to Third Reich Germany. Centuries before Hitler adopted it as the symbol of his political movement and, later, of the state, it was familiar around the globe. It was used by the ancient Hellenes and Celts, and displayed by North American Indians, while in India it was revered as a sign of good fortune and prosperity. The word itself comes from the Sanskrit for "well-being."
The German government isn't alone in banning the symbol. For some years now, model enthusiasts have noted its conspicuous absence from plastic model airplanes and other Second World War military equipment models made by some of the leading kit model makers.
During the Second World War, the swastika emblem appeared on the tail fins of German aircraft as well as on the battle flag used by German land and naval forces. In northern Africa, vehicles of the famed Afrika Korps bore a special emblem with a palm tree and a swastika.
Often, though, the symbol is missing from models of these items. Some leading kit model manufacturers, including Revell and Lindberg in the US, and Heller in France, apparently banned the swastika from their products as early as the 1950s.(note 1) But until just a few years ago, one could purchase a Hasegawa model of the Messerschmitt Me-109 fighter, or of an Afrika Korps half-track, with a swastika appearing as a matter of course in the decal markings.
In recent years, the symbol seems to have disappeared from more and more model kits, both foreign and domestic, and even from the kit box covers. In the case of Academy Minicraft's Korean-made 1:72 scale model of the Me Bf-109E fighter plane, the tail swastika has been replaced with the black cross (crux quadrata) that routinely appeared on the wings and sides of German war planes.
A model Me-109 fighter plane made by Heller-Airfix-Humbrol (a French-British amalgamation) simply leaves out the swastika symbol altogether. The Airfix company produces a 1:72 scale model German patrol torpedo boat (or "E-boat") with a battle flag in which a First World War Maltese cross replaces the swastika. Certain older model kits produced by the Heller company of France and the Hasegawa company of Japan have been reissued with the swastika marked out. For example, a Hasegawa model kit of a German Afrika Korps vehicle includes a decal emblem with the characteristic palm tree, but with a diamond replacing the swastika.
What's behind this censorship? The Senior Manager of Product Planning for Revell-Monogram, one of the largest US model kit manufacturers has explained that's because "in Germany it is a national law that this insignia can not [sic] be used, for any reason." However, in 1997 Revell-Monogram revised its policy. In response to "many complaints," the company restored the swastika on all model kits destined for the non-German market.(note 2)
These days one can find model kits available with and without the emblem. Thus, during a visit in early 1998 to a large hobby shop in Ohio, one model enthusiast found the following German Second World War aircraft kitsnote 3)
With Swastika1:48 Me Bf 109 -- Revell1:72 Fw 190A-8 -- Revell1:72 Me 262A -- Revell1:72 Me Bf 109G-10 -- Revell1:72 Me Bf 110G-4 -- Revell1:72 He-111 & P-47B -- Lindberg1:72 Me 109G -- Hasegawa1:72 Fw 190A -- Hasegawa1:72 Fw 190D -- Hasegawa1:72 Ar 234 -- Rovex1:48 Me 410B-1 -- RevellWithout Swastika1:72 Ar 240C-02 -- Revell1:48 Me Bf 109E-3 -- Hasegawa1:48 Me 262A-1a -- DML1:48 Bf-109G-6 -- Fujimi1:72 Do 335 B-6 -- DML1:48 Me 262A-2a/U2 -- Trimaster1:48 He 111H-22 -- Revell1:48 He 111 -- Revell1:72 Ju 88C-4/C-6 -- AMT/Ertl1:72 Me Bf-109E -- Academy1:72 Me 262B -- Hasegawa
If censoring the swastika emblem from model kits inhibits the resurrection of National Socialism or "fascism," why hasn't a similar ban on authentic markings been imposed on model kits of Second World War Soviet or Japanese aircraft, warships and military vehicles? Perhaps no one believes there's any danger of a resurrection of Soviet Communism or Japanese imperialism.
As a matter of course, models of war-era Soviet "Stormovik" or "Yak" war planes or Soviet naval craft have unabashedly displayed the Communist red star or hammer and sickle emblems, while models of war-era Japanese war planes or naval craft have similarly displayed the battle flag bearing the Imperial rising sun emblem.
Only models of German aircraft, flags and vehicles have been affected by the ban on authentic Second World War markings.
Even more absurd, the double standard censorship isn't confined to swastikas. Recently a Wal-Mart store in Porter, Texas, hastily removed toy German soldiers from its shelves after receiving a complaint from the Anti-Defamation League. The manager of the store abjectly apologized to the powerful Jewish-Zionist organization for having offered the Elite Toy Command Series Field Marshal Erwin Rommel German Soldiers.(note 4)
Amazingly, the passage of time has brought not a lessening but, in general, an increase in such silly suppression. There was less fear and suppression during the first three decades after the end of the Second World War than there is today.
Even in the case of toys, fidelity to historical accuracy is sacrificed on the alter of "political correctness." In these final years of the Twentieth Century, devotion to "democracy" requires such petty distortions of historical authenticity.
<H3>Notes

1. During a telephone conversation on Nov. 23, 1998, Mr. Jim Sniffen, a buyer for Orange Blossom Hobbies in Miami, Florida, spoke of marketing of kit models going back to 1956. He told Daniel D. Desjardins (of Waynesville, North Carolina) that Revell and Lindberg in the US, and Heller in France, have apparently not used the swastika in their model kits for several decades. An exception is the Revell-Monogram's "Pro Modeler" series. Also, a Heller kit (No. 229) of unknown date owned by Desjardins shows that the company did employ the swastika at one time, but at some later point released this kit with the offending symbol crudely marked out.
2. Letter of April 9, 1998, to Daniel D. Desjardins (Waynesville, N.C.) from Edward F. Sexton, Senior Manager of Product Planning, Revell-Monogram, Inc., Morton Grove, Illinois. Desjardins received no reply to similar letters about the company policy regarding use of the swastika on model kits sent to Hasegawa Seisakusho Company, Ltd. of Japan, to Lindberg Model Company of Toledo, Ohio, and to Heller, S.A., of France. One buyer for a major hobby shop in South Florida suggested to Desjardins that the German government implemented its ban to suppress Nazism, further expressing the view that such a ban was probably both rational and necessary.
3. Lovely Treasures Hobby Shop, Fairborn, Ohio, in early 1998. Note: DML is a Hong Kong company. Fujimi Europa, of Brussels, Belgium, is headquartered in Toro Shizuoka City, Japan. Trimaster company is in Fujieda-City, Sizuoka 426, Japan. AMT/Ertl company is based in Dyersville, Iowa. Rovex is a United Kingdom company. Academy Minicraft is a Korean company. Lindberg is copyrighted by Craft House Corp. of Toledo, Ohio, but is associated with CE Dexim Hobby-Artikel GmbH of Kirchlengern, Germany.
4. "Nazi Toys Removed," JTA item, Forward (New York), Jan. 8, 1999, p. 3.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject. Have a good day,


Greg
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Old 24-08-2006   #20 (permalink)
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Terry,I never realised the Greek connection with the swastika,thank you for pointing this out.
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