Gloster Gladiator question

maxidad66 · 15-01-2008

I have posed this question on another site, but I'd like a second opinion; I hope you guys can help me. I am currently building Lindberg's 1/48 Gladiator in the colours of N5519R (FAA planes seconded to the RAF, I believe). It's one of the defenders of Malta.

The colour call-out on the Aeromaster's decal sheet shows the undersides black and white (half/half). My questions are:

1) is this correct?
2) if it is, does the black & white scheme extend to the undersides of the fuselage, meeting in the middle? Or only on the wings and undersides of the horiziontal tailplane?

Any "Faith, Hope and Charity" experts out there?

**Bunkerbarge** · 15-01-2008

The only thing I can offer, and I would wait for Wonwinglo before doing anything, is that the very early British based Spitfires also employed a similar colour scheme, as in the first Airfix 1/24th scale ones.

On the Spit I'm sure it did meet in the middle below the fuselage but I'll dig out my old instructions just to be 100%.

**GEEDUBBYA** · 15-01-2008

Howdy Dad,

Well, I have three models of the gladiator.....but all of them are by Roden, so i dont think i will be of much help with the lindberg kit, however, I have found a photo, one with the color scheme i think you are describing, note the white/black demarcation in center of fuselage:

here is some info I found on the aircraft too:
11/06/40
First air raid on Malta.
Shortly before 07.00 three Gladiators (N5519, N5520 and N5531) were scrambled. Led by Flight Lieutenant George Burges (in N5531), Squadron Leader A. C. Martin and Flying Officer �Timber� Woods were ordered up to meet the attackers. There were so many targets over Valetta and Hal Far that the Gladiators became split up.
Burges saw nine bombers turning in a wide circle south of the island, obviously preparing to head back to Sicily. Cutting across the circle, he and one of the other pilots (probably Squadron Leader A. C. Martin) gave chase, and he was able to fire most of his ammunition at one bomber without apparent result. These were some of 34o Stormo BT S.79s which had hit Hal Far, and the crews reported that the Gladiators fired from long range. One S.79 piloted by Capitano Rosario Di Blasi from 52o Gruppo was hit in the fuselage.
Five hours later a lone S.79 was sent out by the 34o Stormo to reconnoitre the result of the raid. Again Gladiators were scrambled. This time two went up to intercept. Flying Officer John Waters in N5520 got within range and opened fire. He believed that he had shot down the Italian machine, but in fact it was merely driven away, making for Sicily without being able to complete its mission.
At 19.25 the eight and final raid came in and the Gladiators were scrambled. Flying Officer �Timber� Woods first attacked two different S.79s without apparent result before being attacked by an escorting MC.200 from 79a Squadriglia flown by Tenente Giuseppe Pesola who blasted off 125 rounds at him without result. Woods immediately went into a steep left-hand turn. He circled with the enemy fighter for three minutes before he got it in his sight. He got in a good burst with full deflection. The Italian fighter went down in a step dive with black smoke pouring from his tail. He couldn�t follow it but he taught it went into the sea. Woods was subsequently credited with an unconfirmed victory as the first victory for the defenders of Malta. In fact Pesola�s aircraft hadn�t even been seriously damaged. Evasive action and the black exhaust smoke from the hastily opened throttle had obviously misled Woods.
During the day Waters flew another three sorties in Gladiators, two more in N5520 and one in N5519.

source: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/malta.htm

I also found photos of several gladiators by searching google images and typing in "Gloster gladiator malta"

I hope this has been of some help to you, if you are still unsure, wait and hear from barry (wonwinglo).

Have a good day,

Greg

**wonwinglo** · 16-01-2008

Richard,most of your questions have been admirably answered,however contrary to popular belief the white was actually a very pale grey,a good accurate example of this can be found on the RAF Museum's Spitfire 1.

maxidad66 · 16-01-2008

Thanks for your responses, gents.

Yes the defence of Malta and the role of the Gladiators in particular seems to have attained an almost mythical status. It's a very stirring episode in British military history.

My main concern was the colour scheme, as I said. It makes sense that if the undersides are black and white, then the colours would meet in the middle. But this was not clear (or even apparent) from the photographic evidence I saw. (What site was that great photo on, Greg?).

I will also paint the white, off-white (tinged with grey), as per Barry's advice.

As I have never done biplane before, I am cannot quite image how that would weather. Would it be dirtier along the ribs, and hence darker? Or would it be more worn/bleached along the ribs and hence paler?

**GEEDUBBYA** · 16-01-2008

Howdy dad,

The photo of the "Gloucester Gladiator" (man ya'll sure spell things funny across the pond lol ) came from this link:

http://www.battle-of-britain.com/BoB.../Gladiator.htm

There is not much info there, but some.
I found the photo by searching goole images and looking for "gloster Gladiator Malta".

there are tons of pics there.

Hope this helps,

Greg

maxidad66 · 17-01-2008

I quote from Wiki:

In 1926, the name of the company was abbreviated to the Gloster Aircraft Company (from "Gloucestershire Aircraft Company") because customers outside of the United Kingdom found the original name too difficult to pronounce.

You see Greg, we do everything to please you Yanks.

I found lots of pictures of the Gladiator, but my problem was mainly this: was the black/white undersides correct? I know that early in WW2 the RAF adopted this colour scheme, but the aircraft I am depicting was originally allotted to the FAA (Fleet Air Arm), and I didn't know if they used the same colours. Did the FAA paint their a/cs black & white underneath?

In any case, I am not, believe or not, that much of a purist. I'll go for the b/w undersides; it'll provide a little variety on my model shelf.

**GEEDUBBYA** · 17-01-2008

Howdy Dad,

Ok, i looked for more photos depicting the color scheme your described, but to no avail.
So, the next step in my opinion would be to go to the source lol.
I went to google and typed in "FLEET AIR ARM MUSEUM" and was given this link:

http://www.fleetairarm.com/

Then I searched for contact info and found this information:

Fleet Air Arm Museum
Box D6, RNAS Yeovilton
Near Ilchester, Somerset
BA22 8HT

Tel: +44 (0) 1935 840565
Fax: +44 (0) 1935 842630
E-mail: info@fleetairarm.com

You might try contacting the museum today or friday and asking to speak with someone who might know about the gladiator
Not to diminish the input from the contributions by the members here, but atleast this way, you would be getting the information from someone who should know for certain.
Oh, and dont feel shy or embarrassed contacting people like this for information, I am sure its not the first time this museum has been contacted about specific info on an aircraft.

Hope this helps,

Greg

ps: dont bother trying to track down the gloster aircraft company, they became avro whitworth div. of hawker siddeley, who changed their name to hawker siddeley switchgear..... I gave up trying to find a contact that might be able to shed light on the paint schemes of the gladiator.

maxidad66 · 18-01-2008

Thanks for this info. I had a look at the website about who precisely to contact and read the following:
Due to the weight of correspondence received by this department, we are unable to deal with enquiries as quickly as we would like. At present there is a waiting list of around a year which means that your enquiry may not be looked at thoroughly by our staff for sometime.

You know, Greg, I like black and white - I am sure Aeromaster decals did their homework correctly.

**GEEDUBBYA** · 18-01-2008

Howdy Dad,

With a waitng list of a year long....black and white sounds good to me too lol.
However, upon further investigation, i have come across some more leads that you might wish to follow up on.
This website: http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk.../gladiator.htm
has tons of source information at the bottom of the page. One of the links there, I followed ( Gloster Gladiator aircraft profile
(Details of Gladiator in Fleet Air Arm service and preserved examples) and was taken to this page: http://fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/Gladiator.htm
which, gives the history of the gladiator in the Fleet air arm and provides the locations of some of the preserved "surviving aircraft and relics".
Below is a quote from the site with clickable links to the various places the aircraft can be found:

"Preserved examples exist at the Shuttleworth Collection (UK), Gloucestershire Aviation Collection (UK), National War Museum (Malta), and the RAF Museum (UK). A Gladiator mocked up as a Sea Gladiator was loaned by the Shuttleworth Collection to the FAA Museum between 1971 and 1994 and marked in Sea Gladiator colours. This Gladiator has since been restored and now resides with The Fighter Collection (UK). "

Before giving up, you might look into contacting one or more of these places via email, they cant all have year long waiting lists.

I also ran across the name of "trust"who has a gladiator, the one I showed in the photo in my first reply of this thread (I think). It is the Shuttleworth Trust at old warden bedfordshire. You can find the Shuttleworth trust website at: http://www.shuttleworth.org/ .
There you will find a link to the trusts collection of aircraft, which is VERY impressive as well as a link for contacting the trust found here:

http://www.shuttleworth.org/contact.asp

I would at the very least give the shuttleworth folks an email to see if they can possibly help.

anyway, I see that i could probably give you link after link and we could do this forever lol, but hopefully one of these links will lead you to info you can use.

have a good day,

Greg

PS: THIS LINK AT THE TRUST HAS SOME EXCELLANT PICTURES OF OLD AIRCRAFT: http://www.shuttleworth.org/shuttleworth_aircraft.asp

One last thing, along with the above contact link in the body of the post about the "trust", here is abit more contact info for the "Trust".

The Shuttleworth Collection
Shuttleworth (Old Warden) Aerodrome
Nr. Biggleswade,
Bedfordshire
SG18 9EP

Telephone: +44 (0)1767 627927
Fax: +44 (0)1767 627949
Email: collection@shuttleworth.org