Soggy469

Hi Fellow slaves to a hobby,

This is my first post in here so if i have screwed up i apologise. I am posting here this particular forum as it may have been asked before and answered with a review. Anyway, now i am here i have a question for the collective minds out there. I am currently doing all my research into whats around out there in model sub world and have found the 2 most predominant manufacturers seem to be Robbe and Engel (happy to be corrected by the way). I have been looking at a number of kits, the Robbe U47 and the U2540 and the Engel U177 but the Type VIIC is just a tad to expensive for me. Now for a numpty in the modelling game like me which would be the best choice (dont hold back i wont take offense) I note the Robbe has all the vent holes pre drilled, i dont fancy screwing up a model cos i cant drill straight or something similar, although the quality of what i have seem here and elsewhere with the Engel kits impresses the engineer in me. It would also appear that there are no mods required to the Engel kit straight from the box where as its been suggested that the U47 for example could have a new tower added and brass decking and the Engel static dive system, which most likely takes the cost of the U47 straight into the same region as the U177. Anyway oh sub gurus i thought i would pick your brains as you guys have been into this way longer than me and know what your doing (ok enough gratuitous grovelling) Look forward to hearing from you all.

Regards

Pete

Bunkerbarge

To be honest the Robbe and the Engel kits are not really comparable and, as always you get what you pay for. The Robbe kits are considerably cheaper but are only dynamic divers straight out of the box. To make them into static divers requires quite a bit of modification and upgrading. However for a first time model they are excellent value and can be upgraded with detail according to your pocket.

The Engel kits require very little else to produce a stunning model ready to static dive, but you have to pay for it. The big advantage is that you get everything in the kit and it all goes together out of the box.

It all depends on what you can afford and what you want but you really cannot say one is better than the other, as they are quite different products.

__________________

“Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

Screw Loose

Hi Soggy and welcome to the odd world of Subs

Glad someone else on here is getting into subs, they seem to be getting a little more popular these days.

As Bunker says, the Robbe and Engel are different animals altogether. I started with a Robbe U47, and went onto a Metcalf mouldings Royal Navy "T" class sub, and eventually an Engel Typhoon.
I suppose it comes down to one 2 questions, do you want a "dedicated" submarine, ie the Engels or a surface boat that can dive occasionally.

I mean the Robbe boats are Dynamic divers as Bunker says, which dive quickley under the water for a short period of time, or a proper sub that can stay under the drink for as long as you want.
And secondly how much can you justify in spending. Or how much your other half will stand for before divorce procedings get under way !

The Robbe boats are good, great to start with and get some experience, and when there done they look good. But when there put alongside an Engel there is no comparison. But they cost a lot less. You can upgrade them with a brass etching set for upper works etc, and you can add Engel Diving tanks to make it a true "static" diver. But the cost soon mounts up.

Where as the Engel is a complete kit, ( I use kit in the loose sense, they still need major adjustments ) and when its done they are really impressive and are worth the money. They can be tricky. Cutting the holes in the deck is a real pain, and a thorn in the side but its not too hard, and if you cock it up theres always fillers !

I would say if you want to start, get some experience get the Robbe, but if you like a challenge, ( not insurmountable either ) get the Engel. IF you get stuck there about 5 of us on here that are sub nuts. Check out my thread, and Manksters, Solos which is an Engel U boat and ADJ who has a typhoon as well.

Go for it, you wont regret it that often !

Paul

subzero

Hi soggy and welcome,

What is your modelling experience ??? are you new to modelling, or have you been doing it for a while ??.
I agree with the above, what sub do you want, V11 , 1X , XX1, modern Nuke etc, etc. as this will depend on which manufacturer you choose and cost etc.

Sub.

Soggy469

Hi Subzero, Screwloose and Bunker,
Thanks for your valued input, i need all the help i can get (or so my missus says anyway :-). To answer your question Subzero up till the time i joined up i was a prolific builder, umm but that was OMG 28 years ago ( gawd it feels like yesterday hehe) But it was mainly static display stuff, only R/C experience is Balsa aircraft. That said i come from an aeronautical engineering back ground and the ironic thing is i spent most my time working on anti submarine aircraft the P3 Orion hehe. I did note on one of the other threads i think it was that the Engel Akula vent holes have brass inserts so they are all a uniform rectangular shape, (numpty question time again) so does the other Engel kits have this also?? or does ones hand eye co-ordination need to be rather remarkable. There happens to be an Engel kit for sale in Sydney with all sorts of gucci widgets (see us engineers know the right submariner lingo) i will insert the add here and see what your collective experience thinks. "An Engel type IXD2 complete new in box. TAES static diving version. Free flooding slots are rough cut in and this is the only work done to it. Kit is ex germany with 2 750mL piston tanks full TAES control board, motors gearboxes. shafts props and all detail parts including pre built guns. Price ex Germany; was over $2400 but will sell for $1800. Note there is no radio or batteries. Kit is complete down to fibreglass resin and catalyst, microballoons and precast ballast weight. Boat is 78 inches long or 195cm and weighs approx 16kg too big for Aust Post, so is pickup or courier.

Screw Loose

Hi Soggy, I have just read the article and this one for sale seems to be the standard stuff you get with the Kit from New. Seems the bloke is passing the kit on.

Just looked at Engels website, and from new the TMAX which is the best one will got for 965 Euros, and into Australian Dollars ( if thats where you are ) 1591 Dollars.

Think I would be getting it from Engel brand new , then at least you have a warrenty just in case there are any glitches. Dont know about delivery charges however.

And given your background, I would definately go for the Engel. I think you may find the Robbe pretty easy.

As for the cutting slots etc, its all outlined on the hull already. All you need is a few needle files and a lot of patience!

Have a look at Engels site, and if you need to ask any questions, they normally reply asap.

Paul

subzero

Hi soggy...The one I think you have been looking at with the brass inserts is a Scale Ships Hull only not an Engel kit, I have a Full Engel Akula to build, its quite a nice kit and the quality is good, Not true scale but OK for most, I would tend to be wary of a started sub kit, as a lot of them have been " mucked up " by someone who doesn't understand how to do it right hence the re-sale, and it can take a hell of a lot of fixing afterwards. If you can see it first and check the build and quality of it you might be ok, as screw loose says if you get new then you at least get the warranty and any mistakes would be your own. With your background you should be easily capable of building a good un !

Hope the above is of some use to you.

Sub