Vallejo Air - not safe for masking tape?

Jens Andrée

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#1
I just bought the Vallejo Luftwaffe Colours 1941 to end-war kit with 8 colours in order to build and paint some airplanes because Tamiya hasn't got RLM colours. Not the ones I wan't.

My go to masking tape is 3M Scotch Purple which is their lowest of low tack masking tape (and a very expensive one too) and it's never ever failed me before so you can guess how happy I just was when I uncovered this... :mad:

IMG_20171130_050303.jpg
IMG_20171130_050242.jpg

I will probably be able to repair it but it lifted the paint on the bottom side too and that was painted over 30 hours ago and was bone dry!?!

Do you have to put a clear coat on Vallejo Air before using masking tape or do you have to use some magic Vallejo specific masking tape in order for it to work???
Every time I try using anything but Tamiya paints there's always something that goes wrong and I just don't see the point of having paints that doesn't bond to the primer or other layers of paint!

The model was squeaky clean before painting and the paint was thinned with Vallejo thinner so no foul play on that part either.

It's a shame because the colours look really good - apart from it falling off that is...
 

BarryW

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#2
Water based acrylics need to be used in a very different way to alcohol, laquer or enamel paints as they are not 'hot' and just sit on the surface of the plastic.
1/ Clean all grease marks from fingers etc with a wipe over with ipa
2/ You need to prime - I recommend Stynylrez primer which needs to be laid down in light thin coats. It is best to leave it 24 hours to cure. It feathers well when sanding and gives a good grip for the base coats.
3/ Spray your first VMA base coat again in light thin coats and leave it again for 24 hours to cure before masking up....

It can work really well once you get used to it. The big advantage of VMA and other water based acrylics is the lack of odour making it 'wife friendly'.

If the odour is not a problem, specially if you have an extractor spray booth then the very best paints that you can get are MRP laquer based paints which are incredably thin, almost an ink consistency. They have a very comprehensive set of colours, specifically labelled including WW2 RLM, RAF/FAA, USAAF, Soviet and now Italian colours with IJN and IJA soon to be released.

here is a review I did of them on this forum with links to other reviews.
http://www.scale-models.co.uk/threads/mrp-paint-detailed-review.28812/
 

BarryW

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#3
Woooopps Jens - I just noticed its you so you have read all that before about MRP - sorry, I did not recognise your avatar in the Christmas get-up.......
 

Awins

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#4
Given the fact that only small fragmented parts of the paint are damaged, it would be my guess that there was surface contamination prior to the paint / primer application.
Barry uses Stynylrez primer as do I and can honestly say it really is a quality product.
Quick tip, before going to the bench and occasionally during my build I always wash my hands to remove any grease.
Prior to applying any primer or base colour I mist the entire model with IPA allow this to evaporate then repeat. This helps to remove light grease from fingers handling the model during the build.
Cheers Alan
 

Jens Andrée

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#5
I always clean my models with isopropanol before painting them so clean it was.
It did however really grab the masking tape and not at all making it feel "low tack", and obviously let go in places.

I sprayed the paint on in thin layers, drying each layer with just the air from the airbrush. This works surprisingly well actually!
It's not bone dry, but almost dry to the touch and well enough for another layer of paint.

I'm going to make a few tests with this paint on scrap pieces and see if I can make it work with masking tape or not because this was really disappointing...

Sorry about changing my profile pic to a more festive one Barry ;)
I know I should've gone for MRP in this case, but my local place had a "Black Friday" thing going on and I had to buy something more to get a 15% discount and this kit with 8 colours seemed worth a try whilst also giving me the discount... So far not well spent money I'd say.

to be continued...
 

beowulf

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#6
ive had similar happen and its usually a case of when i havnt washed the plastic properly (i use warm water and a soft old toothbrush.....no degreasant or soap or anything) or when i use some masking tape other than tamiya or similar tape.......ive tried 3m tape and it just wasnt as good as tamiya stuff
 
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#7
I'm convinced that Stynylrez will make you happy, seriously, the stuff beggars belief, and your paint will stick to it like **** to a blanket!
 

john i am

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#8
I've always used VMA paints in thin light layers each one cured with a airdryer on a medium heat. Masked with a variety of making tapes. I always de-tack the tape before application. I always give the surface a very light sanding with a high grade pad and a good rub down with an automotive panel prep cloth. I do use latex gloves which stops you contaminating the surface with greasy paws. I've never had any problems whatsoever with paint lifting from the surface using this process. As others have already said it was probably surface contamination that's caused your problem. Get some gloves for Christmas. ;)
Good luck hope things improve soon. I'll forward my Christmas list later.:p (Avatar)
Happy Christmas cheers John
 

John Rixon

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#9
...I've also discovered that Vallejo paint behaves itself so, so much better since I started making my own thinners! Quality flow improver and retarder, and a bit more generous with both than I reckon bought stuff is (anyone bought a Mars bar recently??). I had pretty much given up on it, other than for brush painting details, but this thinners has rescued its reputation for me!
 

john i am

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#10
I use my VMA straight from the bottle. Each one as a stainless steel ball inside.I give it a vigorous shake before use. Seems to work fine with no thinners flow improver or retarder. I prefer a twix to a mars bar. :smiling3:
Happy Christmas
Cheers John
 

Jens Andrée

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#11
Why it happened is still a mystery to me but it was easy enough to fix ;)

Tamiya (and MRP) paints are just so much simpler to use in my opinion and that's perhaps why these "pure" acrylics fail me because I'm used to using fool-proof paints?
Anyhow, we live and learn...
 

beowulf

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#12
i find a lot of Vallejo air work straight from the bottle, some like a drop or two of thinners, but then i dont use a 'normal' airbrush, it might be a bit more forgiving

can i have a toffee crisp?