A few questions about paints

C

cristian-m

Guest
Christian. Photo-Engraved metal is pe. That model looks like it may have some and I know that it is common to have in ship models as items such as railings and ladders are easier to depict in scale. Working with these metal pieces is not as straight forward as working in plastic. You really need to familiarise yourself with this and practise before using kit parts. It is easy for small parts to ping off never to be seen for one thing. Getting them stick down on plastic is not always as easy as it should be and often they need folding and bending into shapes which again can be a challenge.

It's all plastic, even the railings.
 
J

Jens Andrée

Guest
Hi Cristian and welcome to the forum!

The reason why people are recommending a smaller and "simpler" kit first is that most of us got into modelling after seeing a kit we'd love to have and none of us managed to build it according to our expectations...
My "first" kit was a Takom King Tiger with full interior - and I even bought a couple of trainer kits to get the skills needed, and I still failed (or I stopped the build) because I wasn't competent enough in the paint department.
We've all done it and it is with this disappointment in mind they're recommending that you perhaps test the methods, products and tools first on another smaller and cheaper kit first so you've got an idea on how to avoid the most common mistakes - or how to solve some of the problems you might face during a build?
A kit that size will surely be a crash course in modelling but complex pieces of photo etched parts isn't recommended for your first build because it involves CA clue and that's a whole chapter itself because it's a pain in the a** if it goes wrong... (You just posted that your kit doesn't have photo etched railings etc so that's one less thing to worry about! ;) )

Airbrush is the preferred painting method and most of the paints are made for that. You can still brush paint a kit, and many do, but it's harder and requires patience because you have to paint many many thin layers and it has to dry between each layer, but metal paints like Alclad 2 (which is a fantastic product!) has to be sprayed.
Rattle cans (i.e. spray cans) can be used but their nozzles aren't designed for small details but if you mask well it can work but be sure the paint is safe for plastic.
Tamiya has a whole range of spray paint (cans) for this but if they've got the correct colours for your kit I don't know sadly.

I virtually only use Tamiya extra thin cement for glue. It's basically a solvent (MEK) that bonds the parts together and leaves no glue to be sanded away. It can leave a raised edge of dissolved plastic that needs sanding though.
I'd recommend looking at the Tamiya normal cement (not the extra thin) to put in your toolbox for this build, but we all have our favourite methods and you will get different recommendations from different people and all are viable methods, just different!

Most models also require some sort of putty to fill certain glue joints and other "gaps" that happens. Some manufacturers have much tighter tolerances than others and Revell is sadly not one of the better ones with my experience...
Get some basic modelling putty so you can fill and sand any gaps, that's one recommendation I can give you. I use putty on most of my kits whenever there's something I want to improve or fix. It just comes with the hobby and the features of thermoplastics. The bigger the piece, the bigger the warp might be.

Luckily there's a ton of videos on youtube on how to go about building just about every kit out there - and these can certainly be used as guides, but we learn the most from failing and that's why we're recommending a smaller kit to begin with so you can fail - and learn, and then go on to your big kit!
I still make errors when modelling but I'm a lot better in recovery and hiding those failures today and that's the most important thing modelling has taught me ;)

I hope you have a fun build and that you don't run into too many problems, and if you do we're here to help!
 
J

John Rixon

Guest
I've only been doing this for 3 years, but I did build a lot of kits as a kid, and a while back, built many RC aircraft - 5-6feet wingspan, but I still feel like a novice. I've just nearly finished my first 1/32 A/C, and it was a real challenge, despite being a top of the range Tamiya kit. The first model I attempted was a Revell 1/32 mustang, which was a complete dog of a kit, and especially unsuitable for a beginner. After heaving the car-crash into the bin, I bought a 1/35 Bren Carrier from Tamiya, and this is what I cut my teeth on and got hands-on experience with how plastic models go together. I got a huge amount of help from the members here, which prevented me from going out and buying a huge and complicated ship! The main thing I have learned though, is that these skills cannot be learned instantly, and empirical experience has no substitute, so it is an evolutionary process. Just the simple logic of when to paint certain components (before attaching to the model, or after) still gives me sleepless nights! As I said before, I'm not here to discourage you, just to suggest that you put the lid on that box, and cut your teeth on something a little more forgiving, and then, later on, you'll be far better prepared to tackle that big-boy!
 
C

cristian-m

Guest
Hi Cristian and welcome to the forum!

The reason why people are recommending a smaller and "simpler" kit first is that most of us got into modelling after seeing a kit we'd love to have and none of us managed to build it according to our expectations...
My "first" kit was a Takom King Tiger with full interior - and I even bought a couple of trainer kits to get the skills needed, and I still failed (or I stopped the build) because I wasn't competent enough in the paint department.
We've all done it and it is with this disappointment in mind they're recommending that you perhaps test the methods, products and tools first on another smaller and cheaper kit first so you've got an idea on how to avoid the most common mistakes - or how to solve some of the problems you might face during a build?
A kit that size will surely be a crash course in modelling but complex pieces of photo etched parts isn't recommended for your first build because it involves CA clue and that's a whole chapter itself because it's a pain in the a** if it goes wrong... (You just posted that your kit doesn't have photo etched railings etc so that's one less thing to worry about! ;) )

Airbrush is the preferred painting method and most of the paints are made for that. You can still brush paint a kit, and many do, but it's harder and requires patience because you have to paint many many thin layers and it has to dry between each layer, but metal paints like Alclad 2 (which is a fantastic product!) has to be sprayed.
Rattle cans (i.e. spray cans) can be used but their nozzles aren't designed for small details but if you mask well it can work but be sure the paint is safe for plastic.
Tamiya has a whole range of spray paint (cans) for this but if they've got the correct colours for your kit I don't know sadly.

I virtually only use Tamiya extra thin cement for glue. It's basically a solvent (MEK) that bonds the parts together and leaves no glue to be sanded away. It can leave a raised edge of dissolved plastic that needs sanding though.
I'd recommend looking at the Tamiya normal cement (not the extra thin) to put in your toolbox for this build, but we all have our favourite methods and you will get different recommendations from different people and all are viable methods, just different!

Most models also require some sort of putty to fill certain glue joints and other "gaps" that happens. Some manufacturers have much tighter tolerances than others and Revell is sadly not one of the better ones with my experience...
Get some basic modelling putty so you can fill and sand any gaps, that's one recommendation I can give you. I use putty on most of my kits whenever there's something I want to improve or fix. It just comes with the hobby and the features of thermoplastics. The bigger the piece, the bigger the warp might be.

Luckily there's a ton of videos on youtube on how to go about building just about every kit out there - and these can certainly be used as guides, but we learn the most from failing and that's why we're recommending a smaller kit to begin with so you can fail - and learn, and then go on to your big kit!
I still make errors when modelling but I'm a lot better in recovery and hiding those failures today and that's the most important thing modelling has taught me ;)

I hope you have a fun build and that you don't run into too many problems, and if you do we're here to help!


Hey Jens, thanks for the detailed reply. I will buy a smaller model (still from Revell so the plastics are similar) and practice on that first. You are right, even though I don't foresee any big problems and I've done some research, nothing can prepare you for real world experience. For paints, I intend to use mostly sprays, because of how large the body is and how inexperienced I am, it would be quite difficult to get even coats. I will use brushes for the smaller parts.

My main problem at the moment is figuring out the right paint colours, Revell said the ones in the manual are the same as the ones in the images (#78 for the bottom part of the body and #374 for the upper part and fin), but I seriously doubt it. I'll spend some more time looking into paints and try to visit some stores.
 
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Do you have access to different paint manufactures?
Find a good conversion chart and have a look (you might also have to convert from tins/bottles etc. to spray/rattle cans)
http://www.paint4models.com/
But, as others advised gat a small cheap model to practice on. Even practice spraying on milk bottle containers and the like.
Enjoy yourself
Tom
 
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sorry, meant to add a comment about scale.
the bigger the scale the more any mistake/blemish can be seen.
Get a cheap 1/72 aircraft, construct it, and then paint it with the u-boat colours. Look for mistakes, fix them and then paint it again.
This will give you some idea of what can happen
Tom
 
C

cristian-m

Guest
Do you have access to different paint manufactures?
Find a good conversion chart and have a look (you might also have to convert from tins/bottles etc. to spray/rattle cans)
http://www.paint4models.com/
But, as others advised gat a small cheap model to practice on. Even practice spraying on milk bottle containers and the like.
Enjoy yourself
Tom
Yeah I stacked up on yoghurt bottles to try different spraying distances and combinations, the masking tape, glue, etc, before I even touch a model (a smaller one as everyone here suggested).

My problem is that I cannot find any real life stores where I could see the paints before ordering or show them what I need. I might just pay more to buy several and hope to get it right.
 
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I don't know where you are based but in the UK we've an automotive shop called Halfords with loads of spray cans in stock and they can even mix a specific colour (with a sample and for a price). Their primer is also very good
 
J

Jens Andrée

Guest
Hey Jens, thanks for the detailed reply. I will buy a smaller model (still from Revell so the plastics are similar) and practice on that first. You are right, even though I don't foresee any big problems and I've done some research, nothing can prepare you for real world experience. For paints, I intend to use mostly sprays, because of how large the body is and how inexperienced I am, it would be quite difficult to get even coats. I will use brushes for the smaller parts.

My main problem at the moment is figuring out the right paint colours, Revell said the ones in the manual are the same as the ones in the images (#78 for the bottom part of the body and #374 for the upper part and fin), but I seriously doubt it. I'll spend some more time looking into paints and try to visit some stores.
That's the best way - and it ensures that you will have a good experience and not never do any scale modelling again!
I stopped about 30 years ago because the kits were wonky and they looked like they'd been painted with a hammer. Mostly because I was terrible at painting but also because of what was available to me.
Today we have instant access to information so we can easily research data and order stuff whenever we want, from wherever we want, and that's a huge benefit!

Don't think brush painting is less good because it isn't. I do all of my detail work with a brush, and so do most modellers. Airbrush is excellent at spraying even paint on large uneven surfaces with great control. It's also fantastic for painting smaller parts and lines etc, but painting the face of a 1/35 scale figure it's not good at all.
Brush painting large surfaces require a lot of skill and knowledge about paints and how they behave whereas an airbrush is much more forgiving - and quicker, and that's why most paints are catered for airbrush usage, but there's an awful lot of paint for brushing too.
Scale modelling is all about mixed media for me and I'll use whatever tool and paint I think is best at the moment. We have several builders here that don't own an airbrush and they create stunning work despite the fact ;)

Finding the right colour is easy if you know exactly what you want because you buy the paint according to numbers in charts. This hobby is a bit anal when it comes to details so you can be sure that the historical colours are correct when you buy from any of the well known paint manufacturers like Tamiya, Vallejo, Mr Color, AMMO by Mig, Mr Paint (MRP), Humbrol etc etc.
Just look at a colour conversion chart and find the corresponding colour you want.
Having lots of paint at home is the life of a modeller because you never have all the ones you need so we always buy a few more every time we order something. The jars/bottles are small so they don't cost much, but if you add up all the different colours it's a different thing - but we don't talk about that... ;)

Try to find the correct colours for your sub and paint your "trainer" model with those colours and make corrections until you're happy, then you know it'll be correct when you move on!
 
C

cristian-m

Guest
I don't know where you are based but in the UK we've an automotive shop called Halfords with loads of spray cans in stock and they can even mix a specific colour (with a sample and for a price). Their primer is also very good

Great, I don't know the stores here because I only moved to the UK a few years ago, but it looks like there's a Halfords close to here I live.
I'll check them out, thanks for the suggestion.
 
C

cristian-m

Guest
That's the best way - and it ensures that you will have a good experience and not never do any scale modelling again!
I stopped about 30 years ago because the kits were wonky and they looked like they'd been painted with a hammer. Mostly because I was terrible at painting but also because of what was available to me.
Today we have instant access to information so we can easily research data and order stuff whenever we want, from wherever we want, and that's a huge benefit!

Don't think brush painting is less good because it isn't. I do all of my detail work with a brush, and so do most modellers. Airbrush is excellent at spraying even paint on large uneven surfaces with great control. It's also fantastic for painting smaller parts and lines etc, but painting the face of a 1/35 scale figure it's not good at all.
Brush painting large surfaces require a lot of skill and knowledge about paints and how they behave whereas an airbrush is much more forgiving - and quicker, and that's why most paints are catered for airbrush usage, but there's an awful lot of paint for brushing too.
Scale modelling is all about mixed media for me and I'll use whatever tool and paint I think is best at the moment. We have several builders here that don't own an airbrush and they create stunning work despite the fact ;)

Finding the right colour is easy if you know exactly what you want because you buy the paint according to numbers in charts. This hobby is a bit anal when it comes to details so you can be sure that the historical colours are correct when you buy from any of the well known paint manufacturers like Tamiya, Vallejo, Mr Color, AMMO by Mig, Mr Paint (MRP), Humbrol etc etc.
Just look at a colour conversion chart and find the corresponding colour you want.
Having lots of paint at home is the life of a modeller because you never have all the ones you need so we always buy a few more every time we order something. The jars/bottles are small so they don't cost much, but if you add up all the different colours it's a different thing - but we don't talk about that... ;)

Try to find the correct colours for your sub and paint your "trainer" model with those colours and make corrections until you're happy, then you know it'll be correct when you move on!

The colours in the manual are not the same as the demo model (the one in the pictures I attached). If you had to take a guess, what would say was used for the lower body (the dark grey, which the manual says is Revell #78) upper body (which the manual says is Revell #374) and the fin (which the manual says is the same #374)?

Or am I just wrong and those are the correct colours - the previews I get for them on the web could be wrong.
 
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I wouldn't put too much faith in depicted colour from the internet. There's too many variables like computer settings, your monitors interpretation of the colour, the original printed subject etc. Colours would have varied from supplier to supplier and dock to dock on the actual subs so 'close enough' is acceptable (check out scale effect https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/scale_effect.shtml )
Try getting a small tin of each colour and brush paint one of the yogurt bottles. Experiment with thinning the paint and/or applying over different undercoats (any colour can be an undercoat in this instance, just let it dry for at least 24 hours before coating again) or no undercoat.
 

Mr Bowcat

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Hi Cristian,

If you buy Halfords primer, they do a plastic primer (for bumpers and things) which works well on plastic kits. I've used in myself in the past for priming, and it also comes in a few colours.
 
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