Acrylic/Enamel

[Del640]

Hello chaps,

I've purchased an airbrush and was having a play with it, I initially tried Acrylic mixed with water, about 50/50, and it was awful,runny, excessive and went through a pot of paint in about 2 mins!!
I do have acrylic thinners on route via Scale Model Shop, and I have read that water doesn't always bear fruit as a thinner, but surely not as bad as I've experienced?

On a side note I tried enamel/white spirit 50/50 and the results were very good, nice even coverage and no issues, so my question is, I guess, is the correct thinners the way forward for acrylic spraying?

Any other beginner tips absorbed with thanks!

Legal Note: No cardboard was harmed (much) in this practice.

Cheers!

Del.

 

[Deleted member 7181]

I'm no expert but it might help others answer if you could let us know which acrylic you used.

There's a vast range and 50/50 would be far too much thinning for some, not enough for others. Water works okay with some , not so great with others.

Cheers.

 

[Del640]

Thanks Paint guy,
It is Revell Acrylic
Humbrol enamel

 

[Dave Ward]

The question enamels or acrylics depends on your personal choices. I use acrylics, because there is less mess, and more importantly virtually no smell - I live in a flat & have no access to open air spraying, so unless I want to live with the smell of turps/white spirit/enamels, acrylics, then are my choice. MIxing to spray is a matter of practice - it's said add water/thinners to the consistency of semi-skimmed milk!
One thing I do recommend is to use a small container to mix your paints ( I use plastic shot glasses from £ store ) - not in the airbrush cup. You can get a better feel for the paint thickness and ensures complete mixing, and can save you cleaning up the airbrush in the event of a bad mix!
I have to say that I would never go back to enamels, the advantages are far too many for acrylics,
but practice, practice & more practice
Dave

 

[Deleted member 7917]

Del,

I only use acrylics (Humbrol, Revell Aqua, and Ammo). While Revell Aqua is great for brushwork, I have had lots of problems using it in my airbrush, so I keep it for detailed work (cockpits, etc). While I haven't tried all acrylic brands in my airbrush, I couldn't be happier with Ammo (as John would know from the many orders I've made). When it comes to thinning, it's preferable to use the same brand's thinners and Ammo's acrylic thinners hits the spot with me. After 60 years of modelling I've only recently bought an airbrush but I'm glad I did even though I am on a steep learning curve. An old dog can learn new tricks.

 

[Archetype]

The application is important too, so it's crucial you make sure that your pressure is set correctly and that you control the flow properly. My compressor is set to a static 15psi for everything. @Paintguy is the man to ask for expert application techniques.

I also find making sure a primer is used helps achieve a nice thin top layer. This will ensure a decent 'grip' and in most cases less paint, in contrast to the bare plastic surface. Also, do not try to apply all the paint all at once. Build it up using as many thin layers as is necessary.

I use vallejo primer and paint and thin 50/50 with their thinners. It doesn't really matter what you use; there is no 'one way fits all'.

I would suggest you play around with the thinning ratios to find what works for you, but the main thing is to make sure your pressure is set properly.

 

[Deleted member 7181]

Del, I've never used Revell Aqua but here's a quote from them:

Aqua-Color colours are also suitable for airbrushing. It is important not to dilute them too much. Recommended value: maximum 20 to 25 percent water.

So the guys that make it recommend a much lower thinning ratio than the one you used. Now I'm probably the worlds worst for not following the rules, but since they likely know more about the paint they make than anyone else, I'd at least use their advice as a starting point (especially since it's your first time) and play around a little from there to see what suits you, your equipment, and your spraying environment best

As Dave says, it's all about practice. I was rubbish at first, I'm a little less so now, but still have lots to learn!

The above quote came from this page, near the bottom.

 

[Deleted member 7917]

My experience with Revell's Aqua is that the square plastic containers are not air-tight and over a relatively short time evaporation concentrates the paint. This interferes with any recommended dilution level for airbrushing. I am constantly adding water to my Aqua containers to keep the mixture from thickening. You can minimise this problem by decanting the paint on opening into a glass container with better sealing. However, I have often received unopened stock that has already copped noticeable evaporation between factory and user.

Don't misunderstand me, I do like Aqua and use it quite a bit (albeit NOT in the airbrush) but Revell's container diminishes the quality of the product.

 

[Del640]

Thanks for the replies guys.... I'm awaiting a DPD delivery from Scale Model Shop that has acrylic thinner.... Although DPD stated they'll deliver it today, thier tracking system states 'No parcel received'..... But thats a whole new topic!
Give me my thinners!!!

 

[Jakko]

Don't misunderstand me, I do like Aqua and use it quite a bit (albeit NOT in the airbrush) but Revell's container diminishes the quality of the product.

Agreed: if you open one of those pots and then leave it (capped, of course) for a couple of years you’ll return to find a thick gloop that’s almost or entirely unusable. Luckily, my experience with acrylics is that it’s often possible to bring them back to a usable state with a little windscreen wiper fluid (that is, isopropanol) and judicious stirring.

 

[stona]

On a side note I tried enamel/white spirit 50/50 and the results were very good, nice even coverage and no issues, so my question is, I guess, is the correct thinners the way forward for acrylic spraying?

Each to his own, the enamel/acrylic thing is like asking whether someone likes apples or pears!

My experience with enamels is exactly the same as yours which is why, with the exception of a brief and fraught interlude some years ago, I have been using them for the last thirty odd years.

As far as thinning goes, you really have to work out the correct ration for your manufacturer of choice, sometimes paints vary within one manufacturer's inventory. I would definitely use the manufacturer's thinner, at least until you feel confident enough to experiment. It's another reason I still use enamels. Cheap white spirits work for every brand I have used, and they are far, far more tolerant of my very approximate thinning technique (I do it in the paint cup with a pipette and a bit of back pressure).

I'm planning to have a go with some 'modern' acrylics soon. If it all goes wrong I'm going to blame BarryW

Cheers

Steve

 

[topgazza]

I've tried most of the acrylics and still keep going back to Vallejo Air. Sprays stright out of the bottle at 20psi and with 10-20% thinning at around 15psi. I tend to stick with neat @20psi

 

[AlanG]

Like Gary i tend to (mostly but not exclusively) use Vallejo Model Air. It's pre-thinned and sprays fine at 20psi. A little dash of luke warm water for thinning and spraying at 15psi.

Also like Dave said above, i mix my paint in a different container. Mine is the little scoops you get in baby milk tins. Prefect size for an airbrush cup and easy to clean out and re-use.

 

[topgazza]

I use the luke warm water you suggested a while ago Alan It really works well. I use a scotch shot glass for mixing. I have to keep reminding myself...lots of thin coats NOT one big blast. Patience counts and pays off

 

[BarryW]

If I can go back to basics.

Think in terms of different types of paint.

Enamel
Enamels are what we grew up with, Humbrol mostly though there are a few others. Some people swear by them and won't use anything else but they do smell (the paint, not the people!) These are thinned for the airbrush and are good for hand painting. I have not used enamels for over 40 years so I wont say anything about their use but it seems that most people have moved away from these. I do lnow that these are very robust though.

Water based acylics
These are what are often referred to as just 'acrylics' so you do have to be careful. These are thinned with water or, better, the propietory thinner. The big producer of these is Vallejo who do two lines, Model Colour for the hairy paint brush or Model Air for the air brush. The Model Air do not need thinning unless you are using them for effects or spraying at very low pressure. I would recommend a needle size no smaller than 0.3 for Model Air. 0.2 can be used at a pinch with thinned paint 0.15 is too small. Other manufactureres are, Hataka, AK Interactive and Mig though Humbrol have a line as do a number of other manufacturers. Often the word 'aqua' is associated with this type. Generally in use these do not smell and that is why they are very popular but there are drawbacks. They do not stick to plastic very well so a decent primer is needed (dont use Vallejo's, it is useless). It simply is not at all robust and it can take a long time to 'cure' despite drying within a short period. You do need to learn how to get the best from them and be patient is using them leving lots of curing time between coats and take great care when masking. Colour ranges are extensive, perhaps some of the widest colour ranges you can get with lots of situtaion specific colours, you will earely need to mix, if ever. Be careful about thinning these with alcohol (i.p.a.) as some brands can just be turned into a gooey muck by it.

Alcohol (i.p.a.) based acrylics
Tamiya do line of these as do a few other companies. These need thinning for an airbrush and do not hand brush very well. They can be thinned with water but I would recommend propietory thinners. They spray very well and are a step up in robustness compared to the water based ones. The colour range is perhaps the most limited. I would not use them for handbrushing though some do.

Lacquer based acrylics.
Makers of these include Gunze and MRP. A few other brands are bringing out lacquer ranges as well but the two I mention are the better known producers. These are the best type for airbrushing that you can get, MRP's lacquers do not need thinning and both companies have a huge colour range available. These are more robust than the other acrylic ranges. You cannot handbrush these very well, certainly not over other lacquer paint as the carrier re-activates the paint underneath. These are probably the most smelly of all the types and tend to cost a little more. Use lacquer thinners with thse though i.p.a. is good for cleanups.


Take care: Producers often make more than oner type of paint. MRP and Gunze for instance, have both lacquer and water based ranges and do so, I expect, because the water based paint is best for handbrushing and compliments the lacquer meaning they can be used together very well. Someone, like me, will spray with lacquer and paint fine detail with a brush using water based acrylics.

Of all they types of paint lacquers seem to be gaining most in popularity while enamels are being used less and less. But you do need a spray booth and be able to extract air through a window for spraying lacquers. If you cannot do that then use water based acrylics.

What I do:
For spraying - I use MRP as these are airbrush ready and in my view are the very best paints that you can get for the airbrush. They also come in large 30ml bottles and as I build large scale planes larger bottles are of use.

For fine detail with the hairy stick I use now MRP water based acrylics though Vallejo Model Colour is as good.

For varnishes, spraying I use MRP (spraying only in light coats to not re-ativate the base colour). I also sometimes find it more appropriate to use enamel or water based varnish specially where it needs handbrushing.

For washes, AK Interactive enamel washes.

 

[stona]

If you are the sort of painter who feels the need to have fine control over the pressure at which you operate your airbrush, then invest in a MAC valve. They cost about £25-£30 and allow fine control, which you certainly don't have adjusting the output on your compressor.

I don't bother. I spray pretty much everything at about 30-35 psi, on the compressor dial. I might go lower if spraying extra thinned paint for exhaust stains (for example) but only if it starts 'spidering'.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Deleted member 7917]

If I can go back to basics ... etc.

Great post, Barry. Essential advice for any newbie to the modelling hobby. Over the years I discovered much of that by trial and error - especially when it came to the realisation that acrylics are not the same. I wrecked one or two nice models on the way. But I've always taken the attitude that when everything goes well, little or nothing is learnt and it is only when things go awry that you learn a lot. C'est la vie ...

 

[PaulTRose]

i will never use enamels in an AB....mainly due to the fumes cos of my asthma

i once read the easiest way of thinning revell aqua was to open a fresh pot and top up to the brim with water......that should roughly give the right ratio (however you will never get the lid back on til you have used some!)

ive started using Mr Colour waterbased acrylics from the bossfellers shop and i am mighty impressed!.....gives superb finish and are the easiest paint to thin ive ever used, but i am using the proper thinner

 

[Peter Gillson]

Hi De
i won't repeat all of the advice the guys have said about paint types, I'll be more general.

as some have mentioned: practice, practice, and more practice. there are three aspects to airbrushing; getting the consistency/air pressure right and pointing the airbrush where you want the paint to go.

Regarding the third, here is a link to a post I did a while ago which details some exercises I go through when I want to refresh my airbrushing techniques.

Returing to the first two, I suggest buying a bottle of a primary colour of your chosen manufacturer and using that to practice ratios of paint/thinner as well as different air pressures. It may sound daft, but on the odd occasion I have tired a new make of paint I make a note of the different Paint/thinner ratios and air pressures as I practice. On one practice sheet I will play about with one ratio at a number of different pressures, the next sheet will be another ratio etc etc. without making notes i know I would be scratching my head trying to remember which ratio/pressure I like best.

you may have spent ghe best part of £100 on the airbrush and pressure so a couple of quid on a bottle of paint just to practice with is money well spent.

have fun - and remember: clean it, and then clean it again!!

Peter

 

[colin m]

If it all goes wrong I'm going to blame BarryW

Eh now, don't pick on Baz. I followed his advice about MRP and they are brilliant. You will not regret the change.