Adventures in 3D printing...

[Bobby74]

Hi everyone. 3D printing is clearly becoming more accessible now and I think this is my next step. I’ve narrowed down the choice of hardware and software. The question is now around where do I get decent files from. Has anyone got seriously into printing 3D aftermarket parts for aircraft? I’m talking seats, exhaust cans etc. And if so, is there a community forum for sharing advice and reviews on the quality of the file? If I want to print an x-wing or some kind of Orc-goblin, there’s loads of choice. But if I want the landing gear for a F-15E...not so much. Advice and guidance welcome. From what I can understand this is going to become a more common topic of discussion.
thanks in advance.

 

[Dave Ward]

Robert,
to produce accurate models, you either need access to makers' drawings, or able to physically measure a sample, although laser 3-D scanning has possibilities ( but not for mere mortals!). Whichever way, it's complicated. and if you've spent time ( and money ) generating a computer model, you want some return - so free files are going to be fairly rare - and piracy will always be a constant fear.
I used to design mechanical components, using high end 3-D CAD software, and it's not as easy as you may think, especially on complicated forms ( how do you define the contours of a F-16 nosecone? ).
The tolerances & stability of 3-D printed material is not up to injection moulded standards - yet!
It's coming, although probably not Fused Deposition Modelling ( like Prusa, or Creality ), but UV & Stereolithography resin printers - I'm talking specifically about parts for scale models, and normal occasional user, not semi professionals!
I used to use rapid prototyping services before I retired, and some of the processes like laser sintering were not only complicated but could be very expensive.
I've been following the progress of 3-D printing for many years, and whilst progress is being made, it's not quite in the realm of a average modelmaker
Dave

 

[Neil Merryweather]

I can only agree with Dave, unfortunately.
I am a professional modelmaker and I have been using 3D printing for almost twenty years, and the high-end stuff is really good, but REALLY expensive. The resin/stereolithography hardware is getting more affordable now, but if you are looking for free stuff for specific aircraft you will, as Dave says, have more luck creating it for yourself.
There is a site called Shapeways where you can BUY all sorts of esoteric stuff ,and sell it too if that's your thing, but you are reliant on someone having wanted it enough already to create it themselves. And even then there is a minefield of options of material and resolution.
If you are determined to get a machine, I suggest you practice on the fantasy stuff that is free until you know your machine inside out (they are not 'plug and play ' like an inkjet printer).
Good luck and keep us informed.
all the best
Neil

 

[Jakko]

The problem will always be, like Dave says, drawing what you need. Chances are small that somebody else has already made available just the bit you want, I think, which means you’ll have to draw it yourself before you can print it out. Now I don’t know about you, but 3D software and me don’t get along very well

I don’t have a 3D printer myself, largely because of the above and also because I don’t feel like doing all the cleanup needed for a resin printer (the only kind useful to modelbuilding at most scales, if you ask me).

 

[Bobby74]

Gents, thanks for taking the time for such comprehensive responses. I’ll keep looking and researching. There seem to be some good STL files which can be downloadable. I’ll make sure I keep you up to date as I progress (or not!). Love a challenge.
Cheers
Rob.

 

[Dave Ward]

Rob,
I've been on the edge of buying a 3-D printer, several times, mainly at the cheaper end of the ranges - self assembly.........., but then, ask myself what would I use it for? I have no interest in fantasy figures, no desire to make kids' toys - the only thing I would be interested in would be making models, or parts for models - and despite a lot of claims, for an ordinary modeller, it's not feasible at the moment. The real reason for buying one would be curiosity and interest!, and I'd probably lose that after a short time - also there is a drawback in the size of the printer, the noise & the fumes that are given off!
Dave

 

[Bobby74]

Rob,
I've been on the edge of buying a 3-D printer, several times, mainly at the cheaper end of the ranges - self assembly.........., but then, ask myself what would I use it for? I have no interest in fantasy figures, no desire to make kids' toys - the only thing I would be interested in would be making models, or parts for models - and despite a lot of claims, for an ordinary modeller, it's not feasible at the moment. The real reason for buying one would be curiosity and interest!, and I'd probably lose that after a short time - also there is a drawback in the size of the printer, the noise & the fumes that are given off!
Dave

Thanks Dave. Good challenge! Have you been talking to my wife? The main point is indeed interest.

 

[Steven000]

I made tons of 3D models in the past and I can only recommend one thing; if you buy a 3d printer then make it a priority to learn 3d modeling yourself, it's the right thing to do to get the most out of a 3d printer.
Happy printing

 

[Jakko]

the only thing I would be interested in would be making models, or parts for models - and despite a lot of claims, for an ordinary modeller, it's not feasible at the moment.

To be honest, if you did CAD then you would probably be in the best position to actually make use of it, as you actually have the skills to make a 3D drawing of the parts you would want to print out. Unlike just about everyone else, who needs to develop those skills first, on software that all seems to have been designed by people who have never given a thought to usability or discoverability in their lives.

 

[Ian M]

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is time. From what I have seen, any halv decent quality 3D prints take a long time to print out. the bigger the part the longer it takes, (logically enough). All well and good if you are only doing it for your own pleasure (?) but id you have plans to make and sell..... You better hope that you dont get a run on your product, otherwise you will have a lot of grumpy customers!
As far as the software side of things go, if you are into figures a package such as Poser 3D makes pretty good figures that you can easily model on the computer then export is in a format that the printer can read. Again the big let down is the choice of printer. to get a marketable result you are going to be looking at high-end resin printers that cost a lot. Again for own use the figures from a mid-range printer are of a standard where the figure only require a little work to get a "smooth" surface to paint.

A market that could be used to effect is the "tools" market. A holder to manage all the knifes, tweezers, glue bottles and any other of the plethora of modelling tools we seem to end up with all over the bench. A lazy Susan type thing that is large enough to take a large scale car or the like. You know, those things where you find yourself saying "if only I could get....."Many of which could be made in the most basic of 3D programs.

 

[Dave Ward]

To be honest, if you did CAD then you would probably be in the best position to actually make use of it, as you actually have the skills to make a 3D drawing of the parts you would want to print out. Unlike just about everyone else, who needs to develop those skills first, on software that all seems to have been designed by people who have never given a thought to usability or discoverability in their lives.

Jakko,
very true - but then I used software that needed dedicated workstations & a mainframe to back it up. Even now decent 3-D software isn't free, and you generally need a pretty fast computer to run it smoothly. My PC is what you would call pedestrian - I don't play games, or anything demanding! I would guess streaming videos is the most arduous process I use!
To make accurate models, you need accurate drawings - I have no idea where you would get those - despite what people think, you can't generate accurate models from small scale general arrangement drawings - I've tried, and the results were 'approximate', that being the kindest comment! ( That was an experiment to see if it was feasible to convert 40s & 50s paper drawings into 3-D models - the conclusion was yes - if you had the time, the money & the manpower! )
Dave

 

[Neil Merryweather]

I'm surprised we don't hear of more clubs getting together to fund one to maximise the output. I guess the truth is you need someone who is keen enough to make the printing itself their hobby for some time while they learn it.
I now have my own FDM printer which was (AMAZINGLY) a redundancy gift from my job- (better than a carriage clock!), and I use it now as a freelancer, but the data comes from the designers. I do have limited 3D CAD skills and I have made many a tool-holder and household gadget or fix (replaced the coffee percolator knob for instance- big deal...).
I am not someone who is into selling things so I do not plan to go down that route. Those who follow my builds will have seen some of the things I have 3D printed, including the circular base for my Scots Grey Charge diorama. But I must stress I have been doing this for YEARS, and even in a professional context it probably took me (and my team of younger people) 6 months to be able to get quality prints reliably most times. Admittedly that was in the early days of affordable printers- even in a business context we waited about ten years before we were confident enough to invest in a machine of our own. I do wish I could learn digital sculpting, but my old brain struggles with a new phone or change of internet provider these days, so I am not optimistic...
I DO plan eventually to get one of the new 'affordable' resin printers, but we are still talking £250-£300, plus the issue of the smell of the resin in the house, so I am waiting until I can see some in person before I dive in.
If anyone is serious I suggest they wait until Lockdown is lifted and go to one of the trade fairs to see the variety on offer, and actually understand what is involved with running one, and in the meantime there are plenty of reviewers on YouTube and such .

 

[Dave Ward]

Neil,
the resin printers look like the way ahead - problem at the moment is that printing the model is not the end of the matter - the print has to be washed & cured under UV light all the chemicals used can be considered hazardous waste - fumes, toxicity & final disposal...................
Dave

 

[Neil Merryweather]

Neil,
the resin printers look like the way ahead - problem at the moment is that printing the model is not the end of the matter - the print has to be washed & cured under UV light all the chemicals used can be considered hazardous waste - fumes, toxicity & final disposal...................
Dave

The resin ,once it is cured, is inert so can go to landfill safely. The trick with any uncured waste resin is to cure it with UV and bright sunlight will do that.
The main problem is using IPA as a wash- for a start you need A LOT of it ,and as we know, it became as rare as rocking horse **** at the beginning of the pandemic, then stupidly expensive. And then of course it gets contaminated with uncured resin. When I was at work we sent ours to a hazardous waste disposal company at great expense- fine for a big company but costly if it's your own money! it may be possible to let it settle and the do the same UV curing, but we never tried.

I hate to be constantly pouring cold water on everyone's optimistic hopes for 3D printing, as it clearly IS the future, it's just not as easy as they would have you believe. The trouble is the sales people never tell you the whole story-I'm sure the garages and sheds of the world are littered with dust-covered 3D printers

 

[stillp]

I'm sure the garages and sheds of the world are littered with dust-covered 3D printers

Facebook Marketplace and Ebay certainly are.
I hesitate to mention another forum, but there's a chap called The Baron on Britmodeller who has created a couple of Sea Vixens at an incredible level of detail using an Elegoo 3D printer, and his blog describes many of the steps and the pitfalls of producing the model.
Pete

 

[Jakko]

very true - but then I used software that needed dedicated workstations & a mainframe to back it up. Even now decent 3-D software isn't free

There seems to be a number of free (as in beer) CAD programs, but I’ve not tried any beyond OpenSCAD. If you were used to AutoCAD, maybe Tinkercad would work for you, though?

To make accurate models, you need accurate drawings - I have no idea where you would get those - despite what people think, you can't generate accurate models from small scale general arrangement drawings

That, though, is the problem modellers face anyway regardless of whether you’re trying to build something in a computer for 3D printing or in plastic card and rod. And you can apply the same fudges to the former as you would for the latter.

it may be possible to let it settle and the do the same UV curing, but we never tried.

I think that on another forum where this was discussed, it was mentioned that you can put it in sunlight (or under UV lamp) to harden the resin, then separate it from the alcohol.

I hate to be constantly pouring cold water on everyone's optimistic hopes for 3D printing, as it clearly IS the future, it's just not as easy as they would have you believe. The trouble is the sales people never tell you the whole story-I'm sure the garages and sheds of the world are littered with dust-covered 3D printers

Very likely, yes. Like I said earlier, one of the reasons I don’t have one is because I know 3D modelling is difficult, and nearly always have a hard time making anything come out the way I have it in mind. And, if I’m honest, I get mildly annoyed at people who show off their 3D-printed creations as if it’s just another modelling skill. Which it probably is to them, because they’re far more skilled in 3D modelling than I am, but I honestly have no clue how to draw a lot of the things I would want to make in any software I’ve tried

 

[JR]

Most interesting thread, but not for me, I have enough trouble getting a normal printer to behave ! God only knows what would happen with a 3d version.

 

[stillp]

You'd probably set fire to it John.
Pete

 

[Isitme]

I agree with all the comments posted here, at one time I was going to go 'balls to the walls' over 3D printing, got the books, downloaded a free CAD drawing program and then common sense started to settle in before I totally commited to buying a machine and making it into an ornament.
I have been looking at brass etching for my own projects, I have the materials, all I need now is the time to actually prepare the drawings to a standard the fits and will allow me to proceed. I also do my own resin casting, but again some of the parts are not as easy as they seem at first glance. But again could I just scratchbuild what I need. The idea of producing your own items in your mind is great, but when it comes down to actually getting you hands dirty, that is when you meet the problems. The prime point is think first not only of what you want to build/produce but the expense of haveing that £300-400 ornament.
Mike.

 

[Isitme]

Most interesting thread, but not for me, I have enough trouble getting a normal printer to behave ! God only knows what would happen with a 3d version.

You would get a slap....
Mike.