Airbrush...a few questions

[AFC]

Hi all,

I've recently got a cheap compressor and airbrush to start with (an AS18-2 compressor like this one in John's shop). I'll be mainly doing Military Vehicles.

After doing some research, I found multiple answers to the same question. Rather then opening multiple threads, I hope you don't mind me asking some in here:

1) is is ok to thin Vallejo Primer with the Tamiya acrylic thinner (XF-20a)? Or would I need to use the Vallejo Airbrush thinner? Also, I read the right ratio should be 50:50. Is this right?

2) Same question as above but for Vallejo Matt Varnish. Is it ok to thin it with the XF-20a?

3) For the actual painting of my models, I'll be using Tamiya's acrylic paint (XF) hence having the thinner of the same brand for the painting part, is the 3:1 (thinner:paint) the best ratio?

4) If I get well with AB, I plan to upgrade to the Harder & Steenbeck Ultra Two in One [v2.0] which comes with 2 needles 0.2 and 0.4mm. Is this a good one for a novice?

Thank you for any help!!

Cheers

 

[JR]

Hi AFC.
Welcome to the forum.
I have no knowledge of Tamiya thinners, but think it is different from the normal acrylics as in Vallejo.
I'd stay with the same brand of thinners as the paint, so Tamiya in your case. It certainly sprays well from what I've read with none of the annoying problems with Vallejo.

 

[Jim R]

Hi
Tamiya thinner will probably not work for Vallejo primer or varnish. Tamiya XF-20a is not your usual acrylic thinner. As John says use Vallejo's dedicated thinner. There are other purely acrylic thinners that would work.
As for thinning ratios there are no hard and fast rules. There are so many variables. I like the general advice to thin paint, primer, varnish etc to the consistency of milk. That is a good starting point.
H&S airbrushes are extremely good. I have one but I also have an Iwata which I prefer. Each to their own though. Everyone has their favourite.
Just my thoughts. All the best.
Jim

 

[dave]

From experience I can say Tamiya XF20 does not work with Vallejo acrylics, stick with Vallejo thinners or water with a little flow enhancer added.

 

[Allen Dewire]

Hi AFC,

Same here, Vallejo with Vallejo......I use both Vallejo and Tamiya paints and have found that with Tamiya, you can also use IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) to thin the paint and clean your AB afterwards. It is much cheaper than XF-20a too. 70% IPA works well and I have always mixed Tamiya 50/50 with it. I also shoot at 20psi and have had no problems at all.

Can't help you with the AB question as I have an old Aztec that still works very well. Most of all, have fun and experiment on a piece of scrap plastic before you shoot the model you're building.

Prost
Allen

 

[Dave Ward]

AFC,
I use Vallejo acrylics, and I use plain tapwater for thinning, primers, topcoats & varnishes - some people frown on this, claiming it reduces adhesion, but I handle the model as little as possible, reducing any problems.
I would delay buying a more expensive airbrush, until you have a few models finished on the shelf. I have an Iwata Neo, but find I use my cheaper models just as much. I use a 0.2mm Scale Model Shop-091 from John most of all.........
Two things I would advise - quick release couplings on the airbrush - that helps in cleaning, and swapping over brushes, and never mix paints in the airbrush cup!!! I use plastic shot glasses, I can mix thoroughly & judge the consistency, and if anything bad happens ( curdling, coagulation ), I can just throw away the shot glass & not spend loads of time stripping & cleaning a gunked up airbrush.
I use an old model to practice on I have a poor Raptor F22 that is either piebald, or harlequin! - and practice is the key to judging pressure & paint consistency
Dave

 

[Jim R]

I use plastic shot glasses, I can mix thoroughly & judge the consistency, and if anything bad happens ( curdling, coagulation ), I can just throw away the shot glass & not spend loads of time stripping & cleaning a gunked up airbrush.

Very good advice.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Solid advice from Allen and Dave AFC.....

 

[AFC]

Thank you all for all the good advise.

So as for the varnish and primer I’ll get some Vallejo thinner and I’ll keep the Tamiya’s thinner I’ve got for the paint.

and @Dave Ward the quick release coupling is in the shopping cart already

 

[The Migrant]

I would delay buying a more expensive airbrush, until you have a few models finished on the shelf. I have an Iwata Neo, but find I use my cheaper models just as much. I use a 0.2mm Scale Model Shop-091 from John most of all.........

That looks quite interesting Dave, and an excellent price. Do you know if it's possible to get spares for it?

 

[Deleted member 5496]

My understanding is that Tamiya paints are alcohol based Vallejo water based. So best not to mix Vallejo or Tamiya in any way.

Primer Vallejo is the worst primer on the market Andre (in my opinion). Also if you are going to use Tamiya over the top of Vallejo Primer I would test first. I would think you will have to ensure that the primer is very fully cured.

There are many primers. I use Stynylrez which is far superior to Vallejo primer. Dries in about 2 hours & can be sanded to the thinest of edges. Vallejo even cured is not good (awful) to sand & tends to peel.

I use Tamiya over the Stynylrez primer which works perfectly.

All the Harder & Stynbeck are superb airbrushes which I started out with & still have. Personally I like Iwata which are better engineered but more fiddly to strip & clean.

Laurie

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Missed one point Andre.

Thinning Tamiya XF. When I open a new bottle I fill up to the bottom of the neck with 20A thinner. No need for further thinning. This gives a good thin but a coat which covers & does not clog panel line & detail.

I use a Terumo Syringe with out needle to transfer paint to airbrush cup. Cheap as chips available on Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Terumo-TMO...syringe+without+needle&qid=1615081393&sr=8-13

As you will see they are marked with a volume index which is good both from loading the amount of paint & also mixing different colours directly into the cup. Keep a discarded food glass full of water to dunk the syringe in after use.

Laurie

 

[rtfoe]

Hi Andre, all the advice and suggestions above are great from the fellas. I've been at this for quite a while that I don't have a formula or chart to follow when mixing paints or air pressure mix. Just common sense and habit kicks in.

Paint...petroleum don't mix with water. Tamiya on the other hand is a weird concoction or they got their translation screwed up...it can be mixed either with water or something from the spirit world like IPA.
Consistency...when they say milk I would be more specific like UHT skim low fat milk ...in my part of the world milk can be anything from powdered, condensed or evaporated to the ready mixed in tetra packs.
Airflow...the stronger it is you can blowout thicker paint but at a safe distance...obviously if its a glob then nothing can be blown out of that tiny hole. The lesser the air pressure the thinner the paint the closer you can get to the surface and the finer the point of spray will be.
Mixing...definitely not in the air cup and try to use the same brand thinners as the paints until you are familiar with its chemistry. For small amounts I use plastic stoppers on bottles and for larger amounts I still have my Fuji film containers. Get some small Chinese porcelain tea cups that come in a set. After mixing don't pour leftover contents into the paint pot, they will ruin your pot of paint. Only can be done with Gunze Lacquer...ask me why.
Airbrush...work with what you have now and get the basics ironed out...see if you can get the paint point as fine as possible until you want to do even finer work then invest in what you have decided on. Basically you can get most of the effects needed by masking.
Masking...another misunderstood dark art that's easily adapted. It's basically something used to block paint between the airbrush and the surface. Anything can be used as a mask from tape to a paper doily. The soft or hardness of the line depends on the distance between the mask and the surface and the angle of the airflow.

I wanted to make this simple but I may have confused you. So the only advice I can give you is practise on uneven surfaces and you will know your paint point.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Dave Ward]

That looks quite interesting Dave, and an excellent price. Do you know if it's possible to get spares for it?

Mike,
I've been using mine since 2018 & so far not needed any spares! - I've only used water based acrylics, and avoided using solvents to clean it - for deep cleaning I use an Ultrasonic bath with washing up liquid. I reckon solvents can cause the 'o' rings to deteriorate, so now I've given up using them. I occasionally use a smear of Vaseline on the needle shaft ( not the tip! ) to keep it moving smoothly ( not that often! ).
Dave

 

[Isitme]

Andre,
For acrylics I use boiled water (leave to go cold first) or Ultimate products airbrush thinner.
I use Tamiya or Mr Color levelling thinner for Tamiya or AK real colours.
For varnish I use Tamiya clear thinned about 50-50. For total matt I use AK 183 Ultra Matte Varnish.
And except for the acrylic water based I always spray in the shed and with a face mask.
Hope this helps
Mike.

 

[Jim R]

For acrylics I use boiled water (leave to go cold first) or Ultimate products airbrush thinner.

Strangely enough I've had some issues thinning Vallejo Model Colour with Ultimate AB thinner. Maybe I was unlucky or somehow contaminated something but my mix went stringy with small lumps.
Jim

 

[AFC]

From the past I had some Vallejo and Tamiya paints still left, so this time I went and bought Vallejo Airbrush cleaner and varnish, and Tamiya XF-20. I probably get some Vallejo Thinner for the Vallejo paint I still have left

Probably I should've done better research before buying...but learning as I go

Thinning Tamiya XF. When I open a new bottle I fill up to the bottom of the neck with 20A thinner.

This a great tip!!

I wanted to make this simple but I may have confused you.

Nope, all clear and good stuff

 

[AFC]

Oh one more, forgot to ask, about AB cleaning.

I've been watching some YouTube vids and I can see there's a quick cleaning method when swapping colours and a deeper cleaning method (dismantle the AB).

Would you recommend doing the latter after every AB session or once in a while?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Andre,
For acrylics I use boiled water (leave to go cold first) or Ultimate products airbrush thinner.
I use Tamiya or Mr Color levelling thinner for Tamiya or AK real colours.
For varnish I use Tamiya clear thinned about 50-50. For total matt I use AK 183 Ultra Matte Varnish.
And except for the acrylic water based I always spray in the shed and with a face mask.
Hope this helps
Mike.

Hi Mike
Why boiled water and not just tap water?

 

[Jim R]

I tend to clean my AB well at the end of each session. That is not a full strip down but just flush through with cleaner until it sprays nicely with no colour residue. I only do a deep clean rarely - only when I think there is an issue. Very rarely indeed do I take it apart or use the Ultrasonic bath. I do clean and lube the needle more often. Cleaning is easier on H&S than on Iwata but then we're back to personal choice really.
Jim