Harder and Steenbeck Evolution Airbrush.

[Martin64]

Hi,
I have the above airbrush with a 0.4mm needle and nozzle fitted,it’s a new airbrush. I normally use an Apex airbrush, but today thought I would use the H and S evolution. I was using Vallejo model air sand yellow paint on some Warrior wheels. In the past,I’ve never thinned Vallejo model air,so added some paint into the paint cup,and started spraying,but the nozzle kept blocking and stopping the paint spraying. I cleaned the airbrush, and tried again,but still the same problem, but intermittently spraying paint. Could this be because the paint needs thinning? I did try airbrushing some Stynylrez grey primer, and also had problems with that,and it normally doesn’t need thinning. Probably stick with the Apex,as I’ve never had any problems! Sorry for the long post.
Martin

 

[JR]

Hi Martin.
Two things , thin and add some retarderer. I had the same problem so added several drops of thinners in one of those plastic shot cups cup to 10 drops of paint.Then added the same amount of retarder as thinners.
You may have to play with the amounts to get a good spray. It's very annoying esp when you read it can be used straight from the bottle.

Just had a look at the Apex air brush, certainly like the idea of a progressive needle system and the large opening in the body for cleaning. Looks good .

 

[adt70hk]

Hi Martin

I use Vallejo and have done since I started using an AB a few years ago although I'm still very much learning. I also have one of Vallejo's book by someone called Rob Ferreira aka Scratchmod. He runs a forum I used to be on and is very very good. He's basically Mr Vallejo. Book Link HERE

He personally recommends thinning Model Air at a ratio of either 2 drops thinner to 5 of paint or three to five for a very light coat and spraying 10-12 psi. He recommends adding one drop of flow aid to the mix but that counts as one the thinning drops. I normally keep it simple and go with a 1 to 2 ratio as a starting point.

He also suggests blowing a drop of flow aid through the AB before use to get the needle coated. I've tried it on the last couple of weekends for the first time and it's worked very well with almost no dry tip and that was mostly on a 0.2mm needle.

If want to know what else he has to say drop me a PM.

Good luck.

Andrew

 

[colin m]

Just to add to the above. When I used to spray Model Air, I always had to thin it and often used a retarder. I could never spray from the bottle.

 

[JR]

Hi Martin

I use Vallejo and have done since I started using an AB a few years ago although I'm still very much learning. I also have one of Vallejo's book by someone called Rob Ferreira aka Scratchmod. He runs a forum I used to be on and is very very good. He's basically Mr Vallejo. Book Link HERE

He personally recommends thinning Model Air at a ratio of either 2 drops thinner to 5 of paint or three to five for a very light coat and spraying 10-12 psi. He recommends adding one drop of flow aid to the mix but that counts as one the thinning drops. I normally keep it simple and go with a 1 to 2 ratio as a starting point.

He also suggests blowing a drop of flow aid through the AB before use to get the needle coated. I've tried it on the last couple of weekends for the first time and it's worked very well with almost no dry tip and that was mostly on a 0.2mm needle.

If want to know what else he has to say drop me a PM.

Good luck.

Andrew

Helpful information there Andrew, thanks. Will definitely try the flow and tip .

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Do not bother with the thinner Martin. Get Vallejo Flow Improver it does both & I can assure you will work. I put in a cup of paint four or 5 drops. Acts as a retarder & thinner.

Using a 0.2 needle nozzle & 10PSI I can airbrush effects.

Not sure why you are having problems with Stynylerez. Really, despite the above, you should not have problems with airbrushing Vallejo air straight from the Bottle either.

I use the same set up for Stynelerez no problem & brush at 25PSI. Does seem that there is a needle or nozzle problem here. Or hard paint stuck in the nozzle. See if the needle is bent or the point deformed. Perhaps the nozzle deformed. Look through the nozzle onto brightly lit paper you can see normally what is going on.

After all that come back & see if we can help in other ways. Try a little airbrush oil on the trigger valve just ensure that is working properly. Can you rush through a cup of cleaner at 50PSI ?

 

[adt70hk]

Do not bother with the thinner Martin. Get Vallejo Flow Improver it does both & I can assure you will work. I put in a cup of paint four or 5 drops. Acts as a retarder & thinner.

Using a 0.2 needle nozzle & 10PSI I can airbrush effects.

Not sure why you are having problems with Stynylerez. Really, despite the above, you should not have problems with airbrushing Vallejo air straight from the Bottle either.

I use the same set up for Stynelerez no problem & brush at 25PSI. Does seem that there is a needle or nozzle problem here. Or hard paint stuck in the nozzle. See if the needle is bent or the point deformed. Perhaps the nozzle deformed. Look through the nozzle onto brightly lit paper you can see normally what is going on.

After all that come back & see if we can help in other ways. Try a little airbrush oil on the trigger valve just ensure that is working properly. Can you rush through a cup of cleaner at 50PSI ?

Thanks Laurie. I've seen a couple of YouTube vids showing this. But you're the first I've come across personally to do so.

Martin - as it said I don't regard myself as an AB expert. But as Laurie says flow improver only is definitely an option from what I've seen.

ATB

Andrew

 

[David Lovell]

Martin is the H+S never used new or used a few times new ,if the latter pull the needle and give it a clean with a decent cleaner you won't find better than mr hobby tool cleaner it only takes a little bit of residue to cause this problem.
Alternatively ditch the paint use one where you don't need a university degree in chemistry ,tamiya and mr hobby paints thin superb with mr hobby thinner or mr hobby self levelling thinners.
I'm sure half the problem is the paint can never be mixed properly in these bottles unless of course you have a degree in engineering in wich case with a bit of insulation tape you can strap the bottle to a jig saw or a reciprocating saw blade and shake it that fast the paint hardly moves inside the bottle the alternative route is grab a nail varnish shaker on ebay for a few quid same result but probably not as much fun.
Tamiya and mr hobby paints in jars mix easily and thin superbly with mr hobby or mr hobby self levelling thinners, use a little paint spoon mixing tool to spoon from jar straight in to air brush cup add thinners with a pippete stir with a paint brush and off you go .
I apologise now to thoes that dont like my attitude I am very sorry but once again a certain brand of paint has ruined someone's pleasure all that time building your model only for your next stage to become so problematical.
Sorry but I mostly only use the above two paints with the thinners mentioned, I also use mr hobby aqueous paint with mr hobby aqueous thinner wich I also use to thin the few colours of mig ammo paint I have , sorry but paint and thinners and off you go ,who needs a degree in alchemy just to get the paint to appear from your airbrush.
My airbrush is getting on for three years old the worst I've done is removed the needle once to clean it and then I pulled it out of the back why bother taking all the delicate nozzle bit apart I use a decent tool cleaner to flush through and thats it no foam ,sonic cleaners reamers (all it seems associated with a certain brand of paint) come on guys lifes to short its supposed to be a hobby a past time a pleasure not a grind. Dave

 

[Mr Bowcat]

How old is the Stynylrez? I find it thickens with age, which is why I switched to Mr Surfacer.

 

[KarlW]

The only vallejo I ever had an issue spraying was a Model Color rather than Model Air, and then only one particular colour (English Uniform, tried two bottles but no, it beat me.), I only ever use thinners, no retarders. YMMV
Mind you I feel the same way David does about Vallejo about Army Painter.........some people rave about them.

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Some bits I would have my own thoughts with as the worst is air bubbles in the paint. Only use my nail motorised thing in difficult circumnstanes.

.I use two H and S brushes one for varnish and one for Stynylerez. Simple reason they are dead easy to clean.After each operation I dismantle chuck the nozzle and its cover into a shot glass covered with H and S Procolor cleaner. H and S cups are removable so remove with nozzel and get rid of the junk to stop bits getting into the nozzle.

Takes less than 4 min start to finish. Not much difference than cleaning in tact and certainly more successful

Nozzle blockage. Get an Hand S nozzle cleaner expensive but the best All the H and S nozzles I have had for 20 years they are battleship built

For paints I only use Tamiya XF & X. These I blow thro. two Iwata 0.2and 0.3.Damn nuisane to dismantle. Beautifully engineered. Using Tamiya easy to clean no dismantling except I always removethe needle to clean. Blow thro a cup of cleaner before replacing the needle .Definite way to clean the nozzle.

I take a lot of time to clean brushes as the worst you can have spots & junk when spraying. Also make sure the nozzle i free of all cleaner before painting.



I

 

[rtfoe]

I'm with Dave and have been spraying for the last 30 to 40 odd years and these two paints Tamiya and Mr Hobby are the easiest to paint, thin and clean. Other than the thinners that come with the paint I've been using cellulose commercial thinners for both thinning and cleaning with no problem or clogging. Only dismantle the airbrush once in a blue moon. The only thing that hinders my progress is masking so have found easy ways to paper or wet mask without tape. Anything that comes between the spray and surface is a mask.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to own an airbrush or use it. Perhaps there is a bit of std in us to constantly clean but its not necessary...just flush and blow back thats all.
I don't use Model Air...just too much time wasting.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Deleted member 5496]

z

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to own an airbrush or use it. Perhaps there is a bit of std in us to constantly clean but its not necessary...just flush and blow back thats all.
I don't use Model Air...just too much time wasting.

Cheers,
Richard

Depends on the paint you use. Stynylerez which i use is a swine to clean. So is Vallejo M@o]del & to an extent Vallejo Air. Always horses for courses how it work for you.

Someone mentioned thickening of the Styntlerze . But the Ultimate one. Comes in larger bottles & works much better.

 

[Mr Bowcat]

I'm pretty sure both Stynylrez and Ultimate are rebadged Badger primer, but all the same formula. The ultimate also thickens with age (at least in my experience) so I had been buying it in smaller bottles, but eventually changed over to Mr Surfacer as an all round better primer.

 

[rtfoe]

Depends on the paint you use. Stynylerez which i use is a swine to clean. So is Vallejo M@o]del & to an extent Vallejo Air. Always horses for courses how it work for you.

Someone mentioned thickening of the Styntlerze . But the Ultimate one. Comes in larger bottles & works much better.

Thank goodness we don't have much specialized paints and only grew up on Pactra, Revell, Humbrol, Airfix, Testors, Tamiya and Mr Colors. All can be thinned and cleaned with cellulose thinners. Enamels tend to get powdery in corners or where the paint builds up...not good for planes but fantastic for armour as you get accidental rough surface texture. Mixes better with Humbrol thinners. Like I said I had bad experiences with the new type of water based paints so I stay away. But they are good for brush painting.

If only inks could stick to plastic surfaces as they spray the smoothest and finest.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Martin64]

Hi Martin.
Two things , thin and add some retarderer. I had the same problem so added several drops of thinners in one of those plastic shot cups cup to 10 drops of paint.Then added the same amount of retarder as thinners.
You may have to play with the amounts to get a good spray. It's very annoying esp when you read it can be used straight from the bottle.

Just had a look at the Apex air brush, certainly like the idea of a progressive needle system and the large opening in the body for cleaning. Looks good .

Sorry,not been on the forum for a while. The Apex is an excellent airbrush, I actually prefer it to the h and s brush. I have two Apex airbrushes.
Martin

 

[Martin64]

Further to my first post regarding the harder and Steenbeck airbrush. I have since been thinning the paint,and had no problems. Also upped the psi which improved things a lot. Not really new to airbrushing either,first started using one over 40 years ago,but big improvements since then! Lol Thanks for the replies.
Martin

 

[JR]

Further to my first post regarding the harder and Steenbeck airbrush. I have since been thinning the paint,and had no problems. Also upped the psi which improved things a lot. Not really new to airbrushing either,first started using one over 40 years ago,but big improvements since then! Lol Thanks for the replies.
Martin

Good to read that Martin. Really interested in the Apex ab still, just like the idea of that needle system .

 

[adt70hk]

Further to my first post regarding the harder and Steenbeck airbrush. I have since been thinning the paint,and had no problems. Also upped the psi which improved things a lot. Not really new to airbrushing either,first started using one over 40 years ago,but big improvements since then! Lol Thanks for the replies.
Martin

Hi Martin

As John has said really pleased to hear you have got things sorted.

ATB

Andrew

 

[Bugatti Fan]

The Apex airbrush Is this a brand or model name? Not familiar to me. Heard of most like Iwata, Badger, DeVilbiss Aerograph, Paasche, Grex, Aztec etc. (Not counting the number of cheapo ones also available).