Has anyone seen this... could be important for our hobby.

[MikeC]

Though you make a valid point, namely that parents should keep an eye on what their children are doing, you’re talking of the small picture and ignoring the fact that there is a big picture as well.

If it was as simple as “Pay attention to what you’re doing” and “Take action yourself” then there would be no need for most laws at all, nor their enforcement. But if we go down that path as a society, we would end up back in about the 18th century, where if someone did you wrong you had to take them to court — even for things we now consider to naturally be a matter for the government to involve itself in, like murder. The government’s job in modern European society is to be responsible for others (Americans especially are bound to disagree with this statement, BTW) in many areas because it’s simply unrealistic to expect people to themselves take care of all things that affect them.

The question then is: what does and what does not fall under the government’s umbrella? Though I agree with you that people should be responsible for their own actions, the Internet often makes this very difficult. How can you be responsible for your own actions if you don’t know about things other parties are doing that do concern you?

No, this all stops with the parents, it is after all the parents that we see ranting and raving about how their child is fat, how their child is sending naked pictures of themselves to others, how the parents are complaining that their childrent are watching porn or dabling in drugs and if I can go so far that their kids are in knife crime. It is the parents responsibility to ensure that their children are supervised untill they are of legal age themselves. I can sit in my hobby room and watch the first stages of parental 'supervision' starting to deteriate as the parents take their children to school. Main roads crossed while the mother has her nose stuck to the mobile phone, walking down the middle of the side road. Now if I went out and reminded that parent of their responsibility to her young children, It would be me that gets told to 'k off in no uncertain terms.
".... the Internet often makes this very difficult. How can you be responsible for your own actions if you don’t know about things other parties are doing that do concern you?"
There is a very simple answer to this statement, What is published on the internet is the responsibility of the companies like Google etc to supervise it, or be made aware of the content that someone objects to. Now we all know there is porn freely available and there are also other topics and subjects freely available - so where do we as responsible people stop complaining do we stop at using a rubber knife to spread butter on our bread, because some snowflake declares that using a rubber knife turned her 6 year old into a knife crazed zombie.
No the buck stops with the parent, always used to stop with the parent who if caught you doing something you were not supposed to be doing introduced you to the flat of their hand. Then the do-gooders and the snowflakes decided to get involved and now you are at the cross roads of who actually rules in your home, is it the parent, is it the snowflake or is it the child. And all this silly cr4p started with some edited expletive who thought it would be great to divorce himself from his parents because they laid down the law at what time he should arrive home. This has now extended to the internet, and where so called parents once they discover what little Johnny or Mary have been up to or there is a knock on the door or at worst the child goes missing, then when the dust settles it is the parent that was too bone idle to get of their mobile phone and supervise what their child is actually doing on the internet. And if the parent has the gumption to then act by taking away the computer and the childs entry into the internet that makes some valid points - the child is prevented for viewing what they should not, taking part in actions they should not, and the parent demonstrating their authority and parental control. This is another buzz word that seems to only apply to others 'Parental Control', it is not up to me to take charge of others children, it is the responsibility of the parent of that child to hold that responsibility and demonstrate that the child is under control at all times, just have a look at turning out time at school or in the supermarket. Parental control starts in the home, is established in the home, and if you say to a child they are not to do something then that is what the child has to understand and that includes the internet. Were it my choice no child would be allowed near a computer, mobile phone or tablet until they were at least 14, they have a computer in between their ears that craves knowledge, and that knowledge stems from reading and working out problems for themselves. Take away the electronic gizmos which lead to the internet and most kids are illiterate, they cannot even do the most basic of math unless they can access a computer. And it is in the starvation of the brain that leads to the wrong expoloration of the internet and the parents claiming that SOMEBODY ahould do something about it, well that somebody is the parent and there is an off button on all electrical devices. Parental control.

 

[MikeC]

ITS just getting ridiculous be fore long we wont be able to watch any modelling on utube

chris

True, lets throw the computers out the window and go back to how we were, very littler information available and only available in print. It someone from the model club was visiting the USA and the Aberdeen museum the request was can you take photos of XZY vehicle and in particular part A.
I grew up without computers, they were a figment of science fiction writers. All reference material was either in print form or word of mouth. Now I use my computer as a tool, a reference book if you like, I abhore the likes of facebook etc as the bane of ones life, not interested in the bodily functions of pop stars, again another over abused idea gone wrong.

 

[MikeC]

WELL I aggree with mike to me it makes sence but just my opinion
and especially watching those four excuses on the tv tonight.
Mike.
chris

I know it was like having teeth drawn without gas. I have never seen so many plants outside a garden centre as there were in that audience. And as for the four 'contenders' I cannot print what i think here. BUT, the most laughable part was in the early evening news on the bbc, the reporter John Pinnear stated very clearly that none of the audience, none of the bbc staff or none of the candidates would know what questions were going to be asked. This could be fun I thought,get some juicy questions asked, few red faces etc if no one knew what was going to be asked. So how come Bruce knew what and who were going to be asking.....

 

[Jakko]

No, this all stops with the parents
(…)
Parental control.

We are talking about entirely different things. Like I said before, I agree that parents need to take responsibility for what their children do, watch, etc.* However, the real problem underlying the issues these YouTube channels face, is not that.

The real problem, as I see it and said before, is that big tech companies collect huge amounts of data about everyone that uses them, and most are very secretive about it because it makes them huge amounts of money through advertising. This is not something that can be solved simply by saying, “Keep an eye on your children” because of how deep that data-gathering and analysis goes. About the only way to stop that is probably to go live in a hut on a moor somewhere, being completely self-sufficient in everything (and, of course, without any Internet connection, phone, etc.).

Now there are attempts to try and protect people from these practices, but unfortunately, these don’t always work well — including hitting the wrong targets, as is likely the case here. That is typical of politicians and government organisations, though: they’re more often than not behind the times on any decision they make, even in fields that don’t advance as quickly as IT does.


* At the same time, I don’t think parents should hover over their children day and night to prevent them from ever possibly being in any danger whatsoever, as is the other thing a lot of them do nowadays.

 

[MikeC]

We are talking about entirely different things. Like I said before, I agree that parents need to take responsibility for what their children do, watch, etc.* However, the real problem underlying the issues these YouTube channels face, is not that.

The real problem, as I see it and said before, is that big tech companies collect huge amounts of data about everyone that uses them, and most are very secretive about it because it makes them huge amounts of money through advertising. This is not something that can be solved simply by saying, “Keep an eye on your children” because of how deep that data-gathering and analysis goes. About the only way to stop that is probably to go live in a hut on a moor somewhere, being completely self-sufficient in everything (and, of course, without any Internet connection, phone, etc.).

Now there are attempts to try and protect people from these practices, but unfortunately, these don’t always work well — including hitting the wrong targets, as is likely the case here. That is typical of politicians and government organisations, though: they’re more often than not behind the times on any decision they make, even in fields that don’t advance as quickly as IT does.


* At the same time, I don’t think parents should hover over their children day and night to prevent them from ever possibly being in any danger whatsoever, as is the other thing a lot of them do nowadays.

If you had read my original comment correctly I stated there that there are ways to prevent these big companies from gathering any data about you and your 'habits'. one is to obtain an IP address blocker, I use IP Vanish, and that stops anyone from collecting anything from me, second is the settings in my browser are turned to 'off' to prevent any of my browsing history reaching a third party. You can also turn of your history so that it is deleted as soon as you come out of the net. In your computer settings for your O/s you have again the choice of stopping your information being collected and used. All it takes is a few minutes to look and to act. I am never bothered by adverts for anything.
As for the governments etc again refer to my earlier comment Facebook, twitter et al are all sites for gathering information and selling it on, with the best one is to do a short survey, and after you have completed that one a few days later up pops another. Governments are not responsible for you receiving ads or blurb from sites, it is the individual that is so drawn in on not missing or being missed that we have not come closer together but have drifted apart from each other to the point where we as humans do not control these electronic gizmos but have become slaves to it, and by becoming the slave it is us that willingly give away the information.
How many of you make a quick check for a text, have your phone close to hand, you can see it every day people are addicted and when you become addicted you will do anything to get the 'fix', and the fix is the text or email or offer from the add company which you automatically click on to, and once you click you are hooked and other ads/info/requests will follow. So it is not up to the government to do anything, and that is the problem, the addicted will blame anyone except themselves for their addiction, and this addiction is passed onto the children - "Mommys busy, go look on the net yourself - you know how to do it". And when it all goes up in the air who is the first to get the blame for not regulating what is happening - the government! It is about time people stopped living in the nanny state and started to stand on their own two feet, and started to accept responsibility for their own actions. I blame the government for not building enough social housing, controlling immigration, providing funding for the health service. I do not blame the government for regulating what people see on the internet - there is always a 'back' button or a 'delete' button if you do not like what you see, or do not recognise the information that has just popped up.
And again your comment that the big tech companies collect the data - well just who is it that allows that data to be collected - you, the end user, use the settings you are provided with. And yes a parent should be supervising their children when they are on the internet, would you allow your children to play with fireworks, would you allow your children to go on holiday on their own - NO! so why on earth would you not supervise your child on the internet, when your child comes and asks for your credit card do you just hand it over - some parents do and have - lack of supervision and supervision starts at home,and once the child learns what is wrong and what is right on the internet they will still go take a look at the dark side.

 

[colin m]

Gentlemen, this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent here. It was created to discuss the potential demise of videos / channels that might interest us on YouTube. Whilst some peoples parenting abilities might be questionable, it's a debate that might go on forever and as such, is probably one we can do without here.

 

[Gern]

One of the great urban myths of today - the right of free speech. This should include putting the instructions for pipe bombs or advertisements for children on the internet. Clearly there are issues with both these topics but either you have free speech or you don't - in which case someone has to decide what can or can't be said - or written - or put on the internet.

Our problem is choosing the people who decide. Good luck with that one folks!

 

[Jakko]

If you had read my original comment correctly I stated there that there are ways to prevent these big companies from gathering any data about you and your 'habits’.

Dream on … You can reduce the information they get about you, but not stop them except by going offline.

would you allow your children to play with fireworks

Yes? I did when I was a child, pretty much everybo(d)y I knew when I was a child did, and if I had any children I would encourage them to light their own fireworks. I strongly suspect that the majority of people who are afraid of fireworks have never lit any themselves.

Gentlemen, this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent here.

Oh, yeah, I forgot topic drift is frowned upon here … :?

It was created to discuss the potential demise of videos / channels that might interest us on YouTube

The reasons for that are what I am trying to talk about, but that keeps getting snowed under by talk of how you’re responsible for your own comings and goings, and nobody else is.

As I understand it after a little research into why YouTube is making these changes, the problem stems from exactly what I’ve been saying: advertising based on big data. YouTube shows advertisements — this is not news — but the US government is now taking action on adverts being shown to children (under US law, that’s anyone under 13), because the American COPPA legislation prohibits targeting ads at children online. That is, they may not choose which ads to show to Americans based on any data they have collected on them, if those people are legally children. Your own responsibility comes nowhere into play here: it’s purely based on what the site knows about you.

The reason this potentially affects modelling channels is because Alphabet (YouTube’s parent company, you may know them better as the company that also owns Google) has based its core business on selling targeted ads based on collecting data from its users — that is, you, me, and pretty much everyone else. It wouldn’t really matter much, except that YouTube will be implementing this requirement in a dumb way: assuming everything is aimed at children unless it’s proved not to be. This means that they are unlikely to be generating much advertising income from anything not marked as not being for children, and so that will in turn cut into the income of the people putting up those videos. That is then going to cause the demise of a lot of those channels, I suspect.

 

[MikeC]

Gentlemen, this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent here. It was created to discuss the potential demise of videos / channels that might interest us on YouTube. Whilst some peoples parenting abilities might be questionable, it's a debate that might go on forever and as such, is probably one we can do without here.

I totally agree, and in future I will not take part in anything that deals with politics or the internet. If it is not plastic then forget it.