Mr. Color lacquer paint problem

[Jakko]

Are there any car refinishers near you Jakko?

I don’t even know, there may be but I’ve now ordered a bottle of Mr Levelling Thinner so I’ll just wait for that to arrive before trying again (which will probably be a week or more … I ordered a few more bits and the shop then informed me that one of them is out of stock but expected next week sigh).

 

[rtfoe]

Hi Jakko,
I have experienced this before. Cellulose thinners from hardware stores come in different formulas with each brand. I've been using cellulose thinners for ages too until recently when they acted up with the very same paint I use. The thinners smell different and they don't evaporate or have that cool feeling when in contact with skin. I suspect the formulas have been changed or I got a watered down batch. It is now relegated to airbrush cleaning.
I use Mr Levelling Thinner for all my Mr Color lacquers now. The previous cellulose and normal Mr Thinners created build up at the nozzle and needle tips and occasional spiders web unless I do a larger ratio of thinner to paint to prevent it from occurring which means more layers to cover.
Try sticking a brush into a semi dried goop of Mr Color and pull away and you will get thin strands of spiderwebs. That's why they're not suitable for brush painting. Airbrushing for that matter they're great. Also you can never throw away dried Mr Color lacquer paints as they can be regurgitated back to life with their thinners.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Jakko]

I've been using cellulose thinners for ages too until recently when they acted up with the very same paint I use. The thinners smell different and they don't evaporate or have that cool feeling when in contact with skin. I suspect the formulas have been changed or I got a watered down batch.

Could well be it was changed to more eco-friendly constituents. For example, one Dutch equivalent to white spirit is called terpentine (that’s not turpentine, BTW, even though the name is similar) and it always worked fine for creating washes from enamel paints. In recent years, though, the formula appears to have been changed and it now takes literally days to evaporate rather than half an hour or so like it used to. On the bottle the name has been changed a little too, to include some words to the effect that it’s “eco” now.

 

[Jakko]

Today, I finally got myself to try spraying the Type 3 Chi-Nu again, with the same paint that was giving me trouble earlier but now using the manufacturer’s thinner. This is what happened after I had thinned the paint and started spraying:



Still the same threads as I had with cheap cellulose thinners Remembering Tim’s advice to use more pressure, I cranked that up to about 2 bars, which is roughly twice what I normally spray at, but the problem persisted. I then thinned the paint some more, adding much more thinner than I would normally use, and kept the air pressure that high. This got the paint on fairly smoothly and with no, or next to no, threads forming.

When I was done, I happened to glance at the filter in my spray booth, and was startled to see:—



The whole damned thing was covered in a membrane of paint! I took it to the dustbin where I got the paint off easily by means of a large, stiff brush, so I didn’t need to replace the thing, but I shouldn’t need to be doing this after spraying one medium-sized tank.

I guess part of the problem is me not being used to this type of paint, and so underestimating the amount of thinner required. But even considering that, I don’t think it’s worth the bother and I don’t quite see how other people get along with it. I doubt I will be using, let alone buying, any more Mr. Color lacquer paints — but I like their aqueous paints a lot, so I will be using those

 

[Jim R]

Hi Jakko
Strange but with so many different paints available there is no point at all in persisting with one that doesn't work for you.
On reading many good reviews I bought a brand of acrylic airbrush thinner. It just didn't work for me so £9.99 literally went down the drain.
Jim

 

[BarryW]

Today, I finally got myself to try spraying the Type 3 Chi-Nu again, with the same paint that was giving me trouble earlier but now using the manufacturer’s thinner. This is what happened after I had thinned the paint and started spraying:

View attachment 442011

Still the same threads as I had with cheap cellulose thinners Remembering Tim’s advice to use more pressure, I cranked that up to about 2 bars, which is roughly twice what I normally spray at, but the problem persisted. I then thinned the paint some more, adding much more thinner than I would normally use, and kept the air pressure that high. This got the paint on fairly smoothly and with no, or next to no, threads forming.

When I was done, I happened to glance at the filter in my spray booth, and was startled to see:—

View attachment 442012

The whole damned thing was covered in a membrane of paint! I took it to the dustbin where I got the paint off easily by means of a large, stiff brush, so I didn’t need to replace the thing, but I shouldn’t need to be doing this after spraying one medium-sized tank.

I guess part of the problem is me not being used to this type of paint, and so underestimating the amount of thinner required. But even considering that, I don’t think it’s worth the bother and I don’t quite see how other people get along with it. I doubt I will be using, let alone buying, any more Mr. Color lacquer paints — but I like their aqueous paints a lot, so I will be using those

I really have not seen that or heard of it before. Given the good reputation the Mr Color that is a surprise.

Why not try MRP lacquers? No thinning at all needed even for fine lines. Spray them at about 10-15 psi or slightly lower and you really cannot go wrong.

 

[BattleshipBob]

Always found mr color.a pleasure to use, use there thinner at 50/50, 20psi for normal work and 10psi for close up.

Mrp again no problems. Strange problem?

 

[BarryW]

I have just had another look and it is not just that strange spider web but the way the paint looks somewhat rough.

The shape of the model combined with air pressure might be part of the problem. I have found that air vortexes cause by the shape can cause a slightly rougher paint finish in places like the underwing between engine and fuselage.

Perhaps the spider web was caused by that type of effect. Lacquers tend to be best at a very low psi and cranking down the air pressure to below 10 psi and spraying close in might produce a better result overcoming the vortexes.

I also see that the second time around that you upped the air pressure to 2 bar, about 30 psi, I can imagine that doing so might ‘force’ the paint through the vortexes alleviating the problem on the model but, by the time overspray hits your filter the pressure has reduced creating that dry powdery effect that you have. Naturally as well, spraying at such a high pressure throws out a lot of paint!

Can I make a suggestion rather than just give up on a brand?

Try a mist spray of MLT over the model, make sure it hits the model slightly wet but not flooding it, I would do this at 10psi or less. Let it dry for 10 minutes and see if the finish has improved. I find that to be the cure for the rougher surface between engines and fuselage as the paint is reactivated and self-levels
Getting rid of any rougher surface.

I doubt that it would work where you get a spider web effect though, but it would be an interesting experiment.

Just some thoughts about a strange problem.

 

[Ian M]

That is just weird. Have no idea of what happened. could it be a duff paint batch? The binders reacting badly with the thinners...
I will though say if you think that is crazy, try decanted hair spray in an air brush. What the actual!
Turned my tank and my first try with the hair spray technic into a very nice hallowen decoration. Instant cobwebs.... EVERYWHERE! LOL.

 

[Tim Marlow]

+1 on the just weird, I use exactly the same settings as Bob the Stug and the stuff sprays like silk! Never had any trouble the one time I sprayed decanted hairspray either Ian…..apart from the subsequent paint coat coming off in sheets rather than chipping like it was supposed to

 

[Tim Marlow]

Just had a thought Jakko. It’s not Mr Color aqueous inadvertently filled into a lacquer bottle is it? I’d be amazed if it was, but can’t think of anything else…..

 

[Jakko]

Strange but with so many different paints available there is no point at all in persisting with one that doesn't work for you.

That’s my thought exactly. I’ll match or mix other paints to the other two Mr. Color paints needed for this tank’s camouflage, so I can use ones I do get along with.

On reading many good reviews I bought a brand of acrylic airbrush thinner. It just didn't work for me so £9.99 literally went down the drain.

I’ve got much the same feeling about this bottle. Though I think I’ll try it with other paints as well, since many people have commented that it’s very good for other acrylics too.

I really have not seen that or heard of it before. Given the good reputation the Mr Color that is a surprise.

Same, and I think the problem is what I’ve mentioned before: I’m not used to this paint, so I get strange results with it by doing things that do work with the paints I am used to.

Why not try MRP lacquers? No thinning at all needed even for fine lines.

I have used a bottle of that, and it worked fine for me, yes. However, another reason I don’t feel like using more Mr. Color lacquers is the smell of the paint and the thinner needed for the paint and/or cleaning the airbrush. Acrylics I can thin and rinse out with alcohol or water don’t have that problem at all.

use there thinner at 50/50

That sounds like about the ratio I ended up using for this. Water- or alcohol-based acrylics need far less thinner, in my experience, so that’s where I went wrong at first today: not adding enough. The paint sprayed much better when I added more thinner; maybe I could have cranked the pressure back down, but I didn’t want to try because my mentality is usually to not mess with things that work

I have just had another look and it is not just that strange spider web but the way the paint looks somewhat rough.

I suspect that is mostly because you’re looking at the previous coat of paint, from my initial attempt at airbrushing this model. The one where I ended up scrubbing the webs away with a brush.

Perhaps the spider web was caused by that type of effect.

It’s a good theory, but they also appeared on the faces of some of the wheels, which I sprayed on the sprue, and which got hit by the full pressure of the airflow.

Lacquers tend to be best at a very low psi

Exactly the opposite of what I did, then

Try a mist spray of MLT over the model, make sure it hits the model slightly wet but not flooding it, I would do this at 10psi or less. Let it dry for 10 minutes and see if the finish has improved.

The finish has already improved with the well-thinned paint I sprayed on the model at higher pressure: it’s smoother than the first attempt was, so I think your suggestion would have worked.

That is just weird. Have no idea of what happened. could it be a duff paint batch?

It’s probably just my lack of skill with this kind of paint.

I will though say if you think that is crazy, try decanted hair spray in an air brush. What the actual!
Turned my tank and my first try with the hair spray technic into a very nice hallowen decoration. Instant cobwebs.... EVERYWHERE! LOL.

I’ve never tried it, and reading that, I don’t think I will either

Just had a thought Jakko. It’s not Mr Color aqueous inadvertently filled into a lacquer bottle is it? I’d be amazed if it was, but can’t think of anything else…..

It’s definitely lacquer paints: I stirred it with a stick that already had paint on it, and that dissolved, which I’ve only ever seen lacquer paints do. Aside from that, it also smells like lacquer and not like Mr. Color aqueous.