Oh no! Not Olive Drab! Sorted thanks.

[Jakko]

you got to try and start with something close

Agreed — you’re never going to get it right for everyone, but if you can rationalise the colour (to yourself, at least) then you’re good, I’d say.

Jakko - I've checked and the VMA equivalent to FS 34087 is their 71.043 which they describe variously as Braunviolett RLM 81 and US Olive drab.

I’ve got a few bottles of that, which I use these days for American OD when spraying, and also a bottle of Gunze Sangyo Mr. Hobby H52 for brush-painting. They’re not the same, but since I wouldn’t touch up one with the other, that doesn’t matter.

And all this for a model which may not get built!

Isn’t that half the fun of being an Advanced Modeller™?

 

[Deleted member 7181]

So, with 12 hours to kill on a quiet day at work, and all the toys of a £1M bodyshop at my disposal, here's how Olive Drab, FS 34087, would have officially looked when brand new. No doubt there would have been variations as mentioned earlier due to batches being made slightly differently, mixing in the field with whatever was available etc., but this is the "benchmark" shade as it were, 1942-1959, according to the information I have.



Wet paint in the pot in the middle, natural finish on the left, matt clearcoat on the right.

Pretty much a 50/50 mix of a yellow oxide colour and black, which would tie up with one story I heard that they just added black to primer to make a low visibility colour.

A completely meaningless excersise, but it passed some time for me today

 

[Gern]

So have you calculated how many 1/35 tanks you could paint with that?

Better still, have you worked out how much you could sell it for at around £2.50 for 17ml?

 

[Deleted member 7181]

No, but probably a lot

I only mixed 100ml, which is about as low we can go. The pot just looks full because they fit on the spray gun upside down so it swirls around and sticks to the sides.

There's plenty left so I'm going to see how it goes though an airbrush.

 

[Jakko]

So, with 12 hours to kill on a quiet day at work, and all the toys of a £1M bodyshop at my disposal, here's how Olive Drab, FS 34087, would have officially looked when brand new.

Cool!

1942-1959, according to the information I have.

Since I’ve been going on in some detail about this colour, I’ll need to say something here too In that time period, there was no FS 34087 olive drab — it was Quartermaster Corps colour No. 9 olive drab, or Corps of Engineers colour No. 22 olive drab, or ANA 613 olive drab, all of which were the same colour. After that , FS 595 came out and introduced the FS *4087 number for olive drab, but in the mid-1960s, something went wrong and the matt shade (34087) was made lighter than the gloss (14087) and semi-gloss (24087) variants. Which leaves me wondering which shade you’ve actually mixed there

Pretty much a 50/50 mix of a yellow oxide colour and black, which would tie up with one story I heard that they just added black to primer to make a low visibility colour.

That makes sense, given that the original formulation was ochre plus black pigments, though I don't known in what ratio (nor what exact pigments ).

 

[Tim Marlow]

The pigments would probably be yellow ochre and lamp black. Then again, as the Americans used zinc chromate as a primer it might have been zinc chromate and lamp black. Then again, the switch to Zinc chromate might have been why there was a variation in the US air force colour was different....because the zinc content would help protect the airframe......then again, it could be any or all of these as once, hence the issue with guessing accurate colour......Even if you make an exact match between a paint mix and an original paint chip under one light source a difference in pigmentation between the two could make the colour show differently under a different light source.

 

[JR]

Don't know about you Dave but I'm confused !

 

[Gern]

Don't know about you Dave but I'm confused !

I was confused before all this started! As a long-term member of the N.E.C, a lot of this is pretty meaningless to me but ....

Without all the guys being picky about colours and counting rivets etc. we'd still be carving models out of lumps of wood and scratching around in the ground for coloured dirt to make paints. By demanding stuff to be accurate and forcing competition, look what manufacturers are creating for us and the choices we have today. I say 'Keep up the good work!'

 

[Deleted member 7181]

~ In that time period, there was no FS 34087 olive drab ~

Interesting stuff Jakko.

It's a subject I know nothing about, I'm just trusting the paint company to have done their homework. Clearly not!

 

[Jakko]

Don't know about you Dave but I'm confused !

Don’t worry, this is the normal state of being after trying to research paint colours for military vehicles

Without all the guys being picky about colours and counting rivets etc. we'd still be carving models out of lumps of wood and scratching around in the ground for coloured dirt to make paints. By demanding stuff to be accurate and forcing competition, look what manufacturers are creating for us and the choices we have today.

That’s a very good point. You can (and we people do) argue about these colours until the cows come home and never get an answer everybody is happy with, but if that had not been going on in recent decades, the inaccurate renditions of, say, the 1960s and 70s (when AFV history first started being written about) would still be accepted as “right”.

Now all model kit manufacturers need to do is update the painting instructions in their older kits to match

It's a subject I know nothing about, I'm just trusting the paint company to have done their homework. Clearly not!

I suspect they’ve matched their mixing formula quite well to some or another version of the FS 595 chart. It may be interesting to see if they give different pigment mixes for gloss/semigloss and matt? If so, that would probably indicate they’ve done their homework — though if it doesn’t, that could also indicate they’ve done their homework … Hmm … this is getting difficult

 

[spanner570]

Don't know about you Dave but I'm confused !

Jeez, 453.... never mind confused. I've now found the reason for my nose bleeds!

 

[Tim Marlow]

Yes, but what colour is the blood.....

 

[Gern]

Yes, but what colour is the blood.....

It had better not be Olive Drab or Dunkelgelb or we'll all want some and Ron would have to go into hiding!

Never mind Ron. Tilt your head forward a little and pinch the bridge of your nose. If that don't stop the bleeding call for matron. Meantime, try not to bleed all over your kits - it spoils the paint job! See how sensitive I am towards your health issues?

 

[spanner570]

Thanks Dave. I apreciate your concern for my well being....

Yes, but what colour is the blood.....

It's a sort of reddish red. According to my chart 453-570, 1924 and based on my alcohol consumption, it should be more of an amber (with bubbles)
However, recent research has revealed, and I quote from Matron's thesis dated 11/04/ 2019... "Due to 570's current liking for gin, his blood colour should be pure white.")
However, FS 570453 would seem to edge towards more of a white with a pinkish hue, due to the occasional addition of an infusion of raspberries.
But of course.....

Sorry chaps, I'm wandering off topic.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Wot! No Carmine?

 

[JR]

Had to look it up though.

Wot! No Carmine?

 

[Tim Marlow]

Rather complex for something extracted from crushed beetles isn’t it! Lovely shade of red though....

 

[JR]

Rather complex for something extracted from crushed beetles isn’t it! Lovely shade of red though....

Yes an interesting subject Tim, I liked the photos of it on Wilki. The thought that it is used in yogurt would put a lot of people of off.
Very similar to the Lac bug secretions used to make shellac.