Vallejo Primer confusion

[gkout]

Hey guys,

I am so excited to be part of the community . This is my first post (apart from the introduction), and I will jump right to the point.

I have been researching the last few days on how to best apply the Vallejo black Primer on a F-14A 1:48, and I must admit I am kind of confused. I have concluded that most modelers had great success with 0.5mm needle/nozzle and spraying out of the bottle at 20psi, with 1 or 2 layers of primer.

Then I watched the Vallejo video on YT (video) on how to spray the primer, and what they suggest (of course they also want to push some more products to the market), is to follow the below recipe:

1. 0.4mm nozzle/needle @ 25psi (I guess 0.5mm would do too)
2. Use 50% primer and 50% Vallejo thinner (15 drops primer, 15 drops thinner)
3. Use Vallejo improver at 33% of the primer proportion (5 drops)
4. Spray multiple layers as a first base
5. Work on and sand off any imperfections
6. Switch to a 0.3mm nozzle/needle @ 18psi for the final fine layer
7. Use 70% primer, 30% thinner (no flow improver this time)

This looks a bit overkill to me, however it is the actual product vendor suggesting this approach.

Now, I am just undecided which path to follow . Any help is most welcome.

thx,
//G

 

[BarryW]

Vallejo has a poor reputation. It can be made to work OK, Indeed for several years I used it (mostly) with success but you do have to work hard at it but that information you have is over the top.

Two suggestions, as far better options:
1/ For water based paint, Stynylrex primer.
2/ Better still drop any thoughts of water based acrylics in favour of lacquer based acrylics. These are far superior to the water type, much more forgiving and spray beautifully at a low psi. Above all they dry and cure in minutes and are much more robust. I use MRP’s lacquers myself as they are airbrush ready so you don’t have to thin them even for fine lines. Their primers are as good as their paints and varnishes, without a doubt the best paints you can get for the airbrush. An alternative that’s nearly as good is Mr Color but these do need thinning (with lacquer thinner of course).

 

[Tim Marlow]

The recipe you have quoted at 1,2 and 3 is exactly what I use with a 0.35 nozzle. Mind you, I had to experiment to get to that….and I’ve never got 5 to work with Vallejo primer. I always find it tears rather than feathering to an edge. Don’t see the point in 6 and 7 either. Once you have the model coated you won’t improve the surface with a “finer” spray unless you have sanded the whole thing first…..and I doubt very much that anyone can visually see the difference between a 0.4 and a 0.3 finish. If the paint lands wet (like it should) it will self level before drying anyway.
It’s OK as a primer, but not that great. I only use it on gaming figures because I know I won’t want to sand anything to improve rough spots. On other models I tend to use cellulose based primers such as Alclad II.

 

[adt70hk]

Hi George

I currently use Vallejo and like Barry for the most part get on with it ok.

I use a .5mm needle and never change down too a smaller needle, without any obvious side effects.

I used to to dilute 2:1 but have recently tried 1:1, probably after seeing the same video. However, I have not tried it enough times to comment on how successful it is.

Thin layers is absolutely key though.

That said I have had enough problems with it that once the bottle I have is used up I will be move onto another primer......when Vallejo works it's great but they are just too many problems.

I am not able to use lacquers in my set up because I work in the kitchen and so the smell would be too much for the rest of the household.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

 

[gkout]

Thanks a lot guys.. I will give it a go with only steps 1-4 and see how it goes...

Like you Andie, I hate it throwing paid staff away, so I will try to make it work and finish up the bottle before moving to something better.

//G

 

[Ian M]

How to prime with Vallejo: (my version anyway).
1. shake the bottle until your arm falls off.
2, while air bubbles rise to the top of said bottle make sure airbrush is clean and psi is around the 18-20psi mark.
3, fil airbrush with primer. a few drops of flow improver and a squirt of thinner (if needed).
4. spray. start with a light 'mist' coat then give it some.

I will say that the two or three times I have had issue with Vallejo it has been down to grease/release agent which I have not taken care of. I had problems in the start of using water as a thinner. Big bad no. Water does not thin, it dilutes. (yes there is a difference. Yes I know that some paint says use water as thinner, they are made that way. Acrylic paint thinner contain binders that hold the paint together as well as make it thinner. Water with thin the most acrylics but when dry they will be 'chalky' and damage easy.

I normally use Vallejo but have also had some of that stuff from Badger that is really hard to spell! Stynylrez (had to look that one up!) also Very good when I can get it!

 

[Tim Marlow]

Good point about thinning Ian. I only ever use airbrush thinner to dilute Vallejo primer for spraying. Too much water will effect the structure of the primer, and, though it is more tolerant to over thinning, it will affect the paint as well.
Adding water is useful for brush painting, but only up to a point. For some reason overdilution is worse with light colours. Acrylic paint is very adaptable though. The paint properties can be modified to suit both your spraying and brush painting style. This is why the manufacturers make all the additives.

 

[gkout]

How to prime with Vallejo: (my version anyway).
1. shake the bottle until your arm falls off.
2, while air bubbles rise to the top of said bottle make sure airbrush is clean and psi is around the 18-20psi mark.
3, fil airbrush with primer. a few drops of flow improver and a squirt of thinner (if needed).
4. spray. start with a light 'mist' coat then give it some.

I will say that the two or three times I have had issue with Vallejo it has been down to grease/release agent which I have not taken care of. I had problems in the start of using water as a thinner. Big bad no. Water does not thin, it dilutes. (yes there is a difference. Yes I know that some paint says use water as thinner, they are made that way. Acrylic paint thinner contain binders that hold the paint together as well as make it thinner. Water with thin the most acrylics but when dry they will be 'chalky' and damage easy.

I normally use Vallejo but have also had some of that stuff from Badger that is really hard to spell! Stynylrez (had to look that one up!) also Very good when I can get it!

Thanks a million Ian.. Hopefully, I will manage to save my arm . What nozzle/needle size are you using?

Cheers.

 

[adt70hk]

I actually put a clean glass marble in my bottle to act as a bit of agitator to help the mixing process.

 

[Dave Ward]

I've gone away from using Vallejo - I always seemed to have problems with tip drying & blockages - I use AK primers now, straight from the bottle at about 1.5 bar ( 22 psi ) with a 0.4mm nozzle. I only tend to use one coat and invariably let it dry for 24hrs before doing anything else. I live in a flat, so all my spraying is done at living room temperature, and indoor humidity - if you're outdoors, or in an unheated shed/garage, you may have to experiment!. I do use flow retarder when the temperature gets too high, but if it's that warm I'm not normally at the bench.
Dave

 

[Ian M]

What nozzle/needle size are you using?

Depends which airbrush falls in my lap. The Badger just says 'fine'. The Sparmax 0,4 - 0,3 something like that... (cant remember 100%)

I actually put a clean glass marble in my bottle to act as a bit of agitator to help the mixing process.

I have a couple of ball bearings in mine. Last time I had a couple of glass marbles in a pot of paint they chipped bits off each other! Which by the way is why I hate paint in glass bottles. Had one snap off at the neck trying to open it a few years back. paint and blood everywhere including my new jeans!

 

[adt70hk]

I have a couple of ball bearings in mine. Last time I had a couple of glass marbles in a pot of paint they chipped bits off each other! Which by the way is why I hate paint in glass bottles. Had one snap off at the neck trying to open it a few years back. paint and blood everywhere including my new jeans!

Ian

I nearly made the mistake of putting two in and then thought better of it for that reason.....and i only used a marble because I had a few lying around from when the kids were younger.

I hope you didn't do any permanent damage to your hand....jeans and paint can be replaced!

ATB.

Andrew

 

[Ian M]

I hope you didn't do any permanent damage to your hand

nothing a bit of super-glue couldn't handle

 

[Tim Marlow]

That’s cos you got greedy and put two in Ian I too use stainless BBs, but just be sure to check before you use them. Not all that is advertised as stainless actually is stainless. Small stainless steel nuts actually work better if you can source them cheaply enough. The angular shape is more efficient at producing a vortex in the paint.

 

[rtfoe]

All this preparation for an acrylic primer is nonsense for me. I just thin cellulose thinners with either Tamiya, Mr Surfacer or any enamels with no misting, at any PSi (I like large coverage) and the job is done.

I had a run in with Vallejo primer just the other day when a friend let me try his as I didn't bring any primers. What was supposed to be a five minute priming ended up a full hour in between cleaning up clogged airbrush and needle tip build up. And the piece I was to prime was only 3cm by 3cm mesh...yup the one I fixed onto the 1/700 frigate heli pads.

Give me cellulose based primers anytime. What's the use of an extractor fan if it doesn't extract.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[BarryW]

I have a couple of ball bearings in mine. Last time I had a couple of glass marbles in a pot of paint they chipped bits off each other! Which by the way is why I hate paint in glass bottles. Had one snap off at the neck trying to open it a few years back. paint and blood everywhere including my new jeans!

That has often been quoted as a problem with MRP’s glass bottles. That said, the only time I have broken a bottle was when one spun out of my hand when I was using my vortex mixer onto a concrete floor! Not so much a problem now, MRP switched to plastic bottles and now more than half my paints are in them, also I no longer have the concrete floor in my new modelling room….

AKI and MIG do pots of metal balls for mixing that don’t get rusty incidentally. I use these having once previously used what I thought were stainless steel nuts that were not supposed to rust, but did!

 

[Tim Marlow]

I use the Mig ones Barry, and, with some of the earth pigments, they react with the PVC bottles that Vallejo use. Its a bit strange really. The ball stays clean, as does the paint, but the bottles discolour where the ball rests. It only happens with a few of the colours, all earth pigments. The only thing I can think of is that the pigment catalyses a reaction between the iron in the ball bearing and any free chlorine in the PVC bottle, chloride readily rusting stainless In it’s free state.

 

[adt70hk]

I use the Mig ones Barry, and, with some of the earth pigments, they react with the PVC bottles that Vallejo use. Its a bit strange really. The ball stays clean, as does the paint, but the bottles discolour where the ball rests. It only happens with a few of the colours, all earth pigments. The only thing I can think of is that the pigment catalyses a reaction between the iron in the ball bearing and any free chlorine in the PVC bottle, chloride readily rusting stainless In it’s free state.

That has often been quoted as a problem with MRP’s glass bottles. That said, the only time I have broken a bottle was when one spun out of my hand when I was using my vortex mixer onto a concrete floor! Not so much a problem now, MRP switched to plastic bottles and now more than half my paints are in them, also I no longer have the concrete floor in my new modelling room….

AKI and MIG do pots of metal balls for mixing that don’t get rusty incidentally. I use these having once previously used what I thought were stainless steel nuts that were not supposed to rust, but did!

I've got the AK ones and it's surprising how long they last.

 

[Tim Marlow]

I reuse mine. Just rinse out the bottle, drain it, and dry them on a square of tissue.

 

[adt70hk]

I reuse mine. Just rinse out the bottle, drain it, and dry them on a square of tissue.

I've not used that much paint yet!!!