Varnish, wash, thinner mismatch

[tagarnav]

Hi guys, I recently had a problem with coats, I have only acrylic ones (Vallejo and mig's Lucky ones) I recently used the Lucky one for gloss, then decals (had a few issues using Tamiya's Super strong Mark fit as I'll melt basically the coat), then added another clear matt coat after this with same Lucky product from Mig, and when applied Tamiya's panel liner and then a wash that I made from pigments, water and cleaning liquid (detergent) some parts of the coat were peeling off when doing a pass with a wet paper towel.
This really frustrated me as it almost ruined my model, and set me up a bit. I was wondering if I should use Enamel clear coats only, since all of my painting and most weather effects are done with acrylics and water based paints, except for the last last weathering pass where I use some oil paints.
What do you guys recommend? BTW, I'm back from a 20 yr retirement from the hobby lol, I did build 3 kits to get myself used to the airbrush and reconnect with old skills.

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Hi Leo. Cannot comment on your predicament only state what
I use which does not normally present any problems.

All acrylics except the Panel Liner.

Primer Stynylerez which dries quick & hard. Also can be sanded to a feather edge. Vallejo Primer (great peeler) I found to be a plastic coat not hard & does not adhere to plastic as Stynylerez does.

Basically I use Tamiya XF & X range. Very rare that that changes.

Tamiya is much harder when cured than Vallejo. I ditched Vallejo for Tamiya XF

I uses Alclad 11 gloss varnish on the Tamiya XF only after properly cured. About 2 days

Also us Tamiya Panel line over Alclad. Only after properly cured. About 2 days.

With that no problems. After reading of many problems I stick to what I know works, at least fro me.

Only disadvantage with Tamiya limited colours. But you soon become adept at mixing.

Laurie

 

[Tim Marlow]

Photos might be useful for us Leo. it’s a little difficult to fully envisage what is going on from a description.
However, to try and help…..as Laurie, my “system”, such as it is, varies slightly from yours. I use pretty much the same paint regime as Laurie, but usually use Klear as my gloss varnish. After applying decals I then gloss varnish again to seal them. After that I panel line using thinned oil paints and then matt varnish and finish with pigments.
I think part of your issue may be panel lining over a matt varnish. These varnishes are quite rough when dried and could be lifting due to friction when you use the tissue, which is also quite rough, on them. Try panel lining over a gloss surface, and then matt varnishing, to see if there’s an improvement.

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Photos might be useful for us Leo. it’s a little difficult to fully envisage what is going on from a description.
However, to try and help…..as Laurie, my “system”, such as it is, varies slightly from yours. I use pretty much the same paint regime as Laurie, but usually use Klear as my gloss varnish. After applying decals I then gloss varnish again to seal them. After that I panel line using thinned oil paints and then matt varnish and finish with pigments.
I think part of your issue may be panel lining over a matt varnish. These varnishes are quite rough when dried and could be lifting due to friction when you use the tissue, which is also quite rough, on them. Try panel lining over a gloss surface, and then matt varnishing, to see if there’s an improvement.

Yes agree entirely Tim. Panel line over gloss as the panel liner will stain a matt varnish.

Should have mentioned that Leo but Tim is better at minor detail

Laurie

 

[Tim Marlow]

That’s 35 years in the pharmaceutical production industry Laurie. The mantra goes….If it’s not written down, it’s a rumour……and if it’s not signed for it’s graffiti!
A panel line or pin wash is also better carried out on a surface that has been pre-wetted with the appropriate solvent Laurie…that minimises tide marks….I missed that bit LOL…..

 

[Deleted member 5496]

That’s 35 years in the pharmaceutical production industry Laurie. The mantra goes….If it’s not written down, it’s a rumour……and if it’s not signed for it’s graffiti!
A panel line or pin wash is also better carried out on a surface that has been pre-wetted with the appropriate solvent Laurie…that minimises tide marks….I missed that bit LOL…..

50 years to the exact day in architecture Tim.

Make sure you know what you are doing.

Take notice of the written stuff but never use until you have seen the results in realty.

Fail that & it will bite you. Never stray outside your expertise

Laurie

 

[tagarnav]

Thanks guys, I have a few photos, but only from the finished model



For the process, I detailed what I used in the previous post, I used all acrylic varnishes, Lucky Gloss from Mig, gloss for decals and matte for water based wash created from pigments. I do have also Vallejo Matte and Gloss, but those are also acrylic, I went to the hobby store today and got myself some enamel varnishes that I'll apply on top of the acrylic paint and see if that works for the washes, as the enamel mixed with enamel thinner shouldn't react to water from my understanding.
By the way, I know Tamiya and a bunch of other products are way better, but unfortunately here in Argentina product imports are super limited, and you can only get Vallejo or Mig's stuff pretty much for the "higher" quality products.. everything else is national and you don't wanna use any of that stuff, trust me lol.

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Not sure how that would work Leo.

If you are using Tamiya Panel lining then after it dries you will have to use turpentine
to clear it up.

Not being a user of Enamels but would have wondered if the turpentine would affect the enamel varnish.

For certain you will not have problems with acrylic providing it is cured. Not a fan of Vallejo varnish except
for their matt which is superb. I use as mentioned above Alclad 11 gloss (Acrylic) which is extremely thin
dries quickly & dries hard. Also forgiving if you over flow & get curtains 99% it will sort it out for you.

My advice after reading so many problems. Keep as much as possible to one type. With acrylics once cured
it takes a lot to shift it.

Laurie

Whoops just add a very nice model Leo.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Nice job on the Stuka Leo. I’m starting to wonder if the Gloss varnish was “too gloss”….sounds weird, but bear with me…..gloss varnish works by having a very smooth surface because smoother the surface the better light is reflected. Water based Acrylic paint doesn’t chemically bind to a surface! It binds by mechanical interaction, locking into the roughness on the underlying surface. It could be that the Lucky Gloss is super smooth, so makes it very hard for any further coat to mechanically interact, and so adhere properly to the surface. Try a different gloss varnish and see what happens.