We get mail.

[wonwinglo]

JH from Godalming wrote-

Hi Wonwing,I have been following the aircraft markings feature in Scale-models and have a question to ask about insignia but if it is jumping the gun I understand ? I have noticed pictures of Catalina PBY flying boats in American Navy colours,one has the red centre of the American stars with the red/white/blue bars on the rudder and the other view shows these removed ? what was the reason for this change ?

Wonwing has replied-

Hello JH,the reason for the change in the markings came about by Pearl Harbour,the red centre from the stars was removed because of the possible confusion with the Jap :samurai: red meatball insignia,it was feared that in close conflict possible confusion could occur,although this may seem to be an overkill not really,in times of aircraft flashing by at low level at speed gunners could open up on the wrong aircraft ! likewise the wonderful tail markings were also deleted and we lost a colourful piece of aircraft markings in one swoop.

Aircraft markings like this have many times been a subject of change due to circumstances,in World war 1 it was said that the German pilots were aiming at the centre red of the marking ! experiments were even undertaken to paint the roundals well off centre and with weird bird like designs but to no avail and they were scrubbed.

Hope that this answers your question,and no you are not jumping the gun as the series is not in any particular sequence,glad to assist.

 

[Kiwi]

In the same vein you will notice that RAF/Fleet Air Arm aircraft flying against the Japanese had the red removed also (See Hurricanes and Thunderbolts in Burma) and RAAF did the same with their roundel just being Blue/White. RNZAF aircraft substituted blue for the centre red to end up with Blue/White/Blue and, as it was found that shape was more important than colour, white bars were added as per US markings. Fleet Air Arm aircraft also had the side bars. The subject of national markings are a minefield to modellers seeking accuracy! I could go on for ages on RNZAF markings alone.(34 variations of fin flashes for a start, not to mention over 50 different versions of roundels)

 

[wonwinglo]

Yes indeed Kiwi,a vast subject that has to be broken down in order to cover just a small cross section of aviation history,the problem is that it is not helped by non standard variations done at base and due to circumstances of paint supply etc a good example of this was the Suez conflict whereby the official stipulation was to paint yellow/black bands on the aircraft,white was substituted for the yellow,making them look like a re-take of WW 2 D-Day markings,some aircraft flew with even a mixture of both,so there are always exceptions to the rule in anything like this.As always if you are making a particular model or just a representative example,it is best to use a photograph of the real machine as a reference source,our guide is a basic history of the many different changes over the years.

 

[Kiwi]

Here is a prime example of variations in spite of official instructions. Most of these would have a scale judge laughing his socks off if presented with no proof but here is the evidence. Different sizes (even on the same aircraft) diferent positions, different styles, they're all here!

The photo was taken onboard the Enterprise in March 1942, just proir to a raid on Marcus Island.It is a well known shot but is an excellent example of variations in what people would think are cut and dried rules.

Worth noting are: The different sizes of wing stars, some aircraft even have different sizes each side. One aircraft, spotted forward on the right has no star on its right wing. some aircraft have large stars all round, others have small fuselage stars. Aircraft "10" has three different sizes!The aircraft spotted on the left side still has rudder stripes but all the others, including the Wildcats spotted forward have had them painted out in a dark color. That aircraft also has a code S 19 forward of the star.The aircraft nearest the camera has it's wing stars further outboard than the rest, also no aircraft has the ship's assigned number (6) on its squadron, mission position designations. All show only mission, B for Bombing, S or Scouting and aircraft number.

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[wonwinglo]

Interesting is the roundal overlap onto the finenly balanced ailerons,something that was quickly dropped after aerodynamic flutter problems due to mis-balancing.

Certainly an interesting picture which shows various sizes of markings in use,and a good example of what we are talking about.

 

[Spitfire]

The subject of national markings are a minefield to modellers seeking accuracy! I could go on for ages on RNZAF markings alone.(34 variations of fin flashes for a start' date=' not to mention over 50 different versions of roundels)[/quote']Hi Kiwi

I am very interested in the RNZAF, more so duringthe 1939-45 conflict.

I would like to know about the RNZAF insignia colour "blue". I am makeing a 1/32 scale P 40E and would like the nearst Humbrol colour/s that would define my task. What was this particular blue like? any good colour pics ?

As we are on the subject of RNZAF the colour "blue" what are youer thoughts on the camo "Pacific Blue or Ocean Blue" that was used with Foliege Green. What Humbrol clour would be an option?

Thanks for youer time and effort in helping with this matter

Spitfire

 

[Kiwi]

Spitfire, this could take a while to explain, especially at my typing speed, so I think the best thing will be to open a new thread in Tutorials, which I will entitle "RNZAF Markings", that way I can keep adding to it as I type it up.

Neville