1/16 Centurion Tank in Paper

[cutandfold]

Hi everyone...some may already know me...heres the basics:

My name is Dave, I live in Southern Ontario, Canada and I am a Card Modeller!

My website: Dave's Card Creations Dave's Card Creations Home

My Card Model store: Paper Model Shop Home

My Card Modeling Forum: cutandfold.info - Index

I design, produce, build and sell mostly Aircraft kits (WW2 and the like), but I also do quite a few Car Models.

I have many free models as well as the more serious stuff that I sell online.

Through suggestions and requests I have branched out into Boats and Military Vehicles.

I am no expert on any of these topics, but I learn a great deal about every vehicle during the Model design process.

An offbeat request led to the design of a 1/12 scale model of the WW1 Autocar Canada Armored Car.

A friends help with that project resulted in another Autocar kit of a WW1 British Army Lorry.

And after that, another unique paper model: the WW1 "Tank" Little Willie in 1/18 scale.

(click the thumbs to see the models)



I've had so much fun with these "large" scale paper models that I am now attempting to produce a 1/18 scale Centurion Tank.

Not only is there no paper model of the Centurion (yet) but I doubt we will see one at this scale!

I figured it would allow me to detail things a little more as I did with Little Willie including a little bit of the interior.

I'd also like to try and create a functioning Track, but that might be asking a little too much in paper?

Anyway, the goal is to first produce a Canadian version of the Mk.V Centurion.

I have inexplicably started a Canadian themed Model collection!

(I'm not Canadian or in any way patriotic to Canada. I'm actually from England originally.

But I do live here, and I recognize the lack of Canadian themed models and I am attempting to rally

support for Paper Modelers in Canada.)

So...my first question to all you Centurion experts...

I need a single paint colour for the first model.

Paper Models are generally pre-decorated. The colours, paint scheme, surface textures are printed

right on the parts before you build, so there usually isn't a need for any painting.

I will add surface textures and realistic texture details to the Tank but I want to stick to a single colour paint job.

As I said, it must be a Canadian version...and I want to produce a single colour kit.

Not a camouflage Paint scheme.

A camo paint job is something the builder could add after the fact (using an airbrush)

but its a little difficult to create on a paper model like this. Its tricky getting all the colours

and graphics to line up across all the individual parts during the design stage.

I have found British, Israeli, etc Centurions in single colour Paint schemes

but I am unsure about Canuck Tanks.

They all seem to have tri-colour camos.

So, any help I can get on that would be greatly appreciated.

I would be honored to post reports of the design process when I get around to the beta build phase

(if anyone is interested) but the entire design and build process is also documented on my card modeling forum.

thanks!

Dave

 

[joep]

yes,very interested. I've never seen a single colored Canadian tank but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. You card guys aren't modelers ,you're artists

 

[mobear]

are you sure these are card models?lol they look amazing would love to see a build blog on these things to see how easy or hard it is to make

mobear

 

[cutandfold]

Thanks guys...although you aren't helping me with the Centurion info! LOL

Its all good, I am glad you appreciate the paper work.

This is a common discussion on the paper modeling forums...paper or plastic?

We are fighting all the time to be recognized and accepted in Scale Modeling circles

and things are improving. The Paper Modelers group are now part of IPMS in the US

and there are big Paper Modeling meets around the World.

Anyway...I am no expert builder. In fact I am a rushed and impatient builder.

And I like to stick to the easy stuff.

I design my models with two main things in mind...will it sell? and, can a beginner

modeller tackle it?

These models are larger scale designs...that makes it a bit easier for me.

But there are many guys who like to micro-size their paper kits.

Some build at incredibly small scales...I don't know how they do it!



.............

If you want to know more about the Autocar Canadian Armored Car, here is my build thread:

Autocar Armored Car 1/12 scale

This thread jumps in partway through the design process, but covers the important stuff.

(The first part of the design and build is documented here, on the Landships Forum:

WW1 Canadian Armoured Autocar - Landships WW1 Forum)

............

My No.1 Lincoln Machine (Little Willie) kit is covered in this thread on my Forum:

1/18 Scale Little Willie - First Tank (No.1 Lincoln Machine)

Lots of photos of the entire design process and beta build.

If you ever want to try a paper kit, all my kits are available here:

Paper Model Shop Home

(cheap self-promotion)

 

[rememal]

Sounds like a great idea (I`m a big Cent fan).

Maybe you could do a British version in Deep Bronze Green.

Malc.

 

[papa 695]

Hi Dave this Photo is taken outside the musium in Calgari and its of a canadian centurion View attachment 57271 So as Malcolm say's Deep Bronze Green will do

View attachment 59241

 

[cutandfold]

Funny, I originally got here searching for some paint reference

and I found franka's gorgeous model here (I think its a 1/24 scale?)

Anyway, I have been working with his colour scheme until I found more information

about Canadian paint colours.

[Note the four colour palette that I came up with -below franka's photos]

If I don't find anything better to work with, I may just stick with this.

I may also produce a camouflaged version...I will have to wait and see how complicated the layout will be.

One idea is to produce the kit in the lightest colour (of the tri-colour camo) and include a painting diagram

for the builder to airbrush in the remaining paintwork? Not sure how well this will go over with most builders.

 

[cutandfold]

An update to this...I found this site:

Armored Acorn

which has some fantastic reference material on Canadian and NATO Tank paint schemes.

Other than the camouflage paint schemes which didn't appear until the 70s or 80s,

Canadian Centurions were painted in the Army Bronze Green (as per the Royal Army)

which is a touch darker than what I showed in my last post.

Almost as dark as Olive Drab (the common US Army colour), Bronze Green was apparently

applied as a "gloss" enamel.

More for show I guess, than combat use.

(I don't care about the gloss, as long as we get an acceptable green shade)

So, I have made the adjustment and my model is now a shade of British Army Bronze Green.

Also...one of the PDFs I got from Armored Acorn depicts the markings of Mk.V Centurions

of A/B Squadron 8th Canadian Hussars serving in northern Germany around 1960.

This might do just fine as a Canadian version choice!

....

Now...the next question.

Interior.

I keep seeing models with WHITE painted interiors.

However, I have seen three discussions so far, on different Forums, with comments by

ex-Centurion Tank crew members...and they all claim SILVER painted interiors.

I haven't confirmed whether this is later model (say, after the 70s) Centurions

or includes everything from the 50s up?

Anyone have a clue?

 

[Ian M]

I think you will find that it is the other way around. The interiors were Silver and they then went to white.

Interiors where Silver into the mid 40's from when they started to paint them gloss white.

An interesting choice. I have to ask why 1/18 scale?

Ian M

 

[rememal]

When I was in the army in the late 70`s the interior of my FV434 was Silver.

 

[Ian M]

Got me there, but I'm only going by the General Order of the day.

Are you sure all the squadies hadn't rubbed the paint off lol-

Ian M

 

[cutandfold]

LOL so, a 50s/60s Mk.V interior...silver or white? ...those last two post didn't help me! LOL

My Lincoln Tank model is 1/18 scale.

My Autocar models are 1/12 scale.

There is a very large contingent of "big" scale builders (in all topics).

I like bigger scale...it means very small things are easier to work with in paper.

and

There are already plenty of 1/48 and smaller AFV models in paper.

(No Centurions yet, but that could change before I get this model finished,

so my model better have something special about it!)

I have about 150 different aircraft models in my shop.

Thats probably my biggest focus.

But from time to time I like to break the monotony.

I like to take on requests or suggestions if the project is of interest to me in some way.

The Centurion Tank was just another request and suggestion from a Forum member.

For me, its another new, different and unique project.

making it big, just makes it more interesting for me.

 

[cutandfold]

I think you will find that it is the other way around. The interiors were Silver and they then went to white.Interiors where Silver into the mid 40's from when they started to paint them gloss white.

Ian M

The first Tank, Little Willie, had a painted white interior.

Just a guess, but silver paint would have been less available, more expensive and not as bright.

Seems an odd choice in any decade (to me).

 

[Ian M]

Well I got my info from her MAFVA and he seems to know what he is talking about.

My question of why 1/14 was maybe badly formulated. Nowt wrong with large scale, I just wondered why that scale, against a more "conventional" 1/16. Availability of figures and such.

Ian M

 

[cutandfold]

ah I see your point...scale sizes, another common discussion on the paper modeling sites.

Paper Model Scale Sizes are not as restricted as with other Model types and Topics.

And as a scale modeller, I am sure you are aware of the varied scales crossing different

model types and regions.

Well, its even worse in paper modeling!

But Paper modelers also seem to be open to having a wider array of model scales in their collection.

And then there are the differences based on regional influence.

1/32 may be a common Plastic Aircraft scale, but 1/33 is more common with paper aircraft.

1/25 is a common Vehicle scale in Europe, whereas 1/24 is the modelers scale in North America.

1/18 scale is very common among lg scale Car modellers and was the suggested scale when

I started my Autocar build (...suggested mainly by US modelers).

...at 1/16 scale. I couldn't fit many of the parts on pages without cutting them up!

And of course, lets not forget that Letter size Paper (8.5" x 11") is common the world over

except for Europe...where you mess things up with A4 size!!

In this case, 1/18 is not set in stone yet...in fact I can make it any scale I want.

Its just a matter of scaling my final artwork.

In fact, the layout I am working on is 1/35 scale.

I just have to make sure I compensate correctly for paper and card thicknesses

in the final parts.

Another big factor is how parts fit on the final pages of the model.

If parts won't fit on a page, and are only a few percent too large,

then I might downsize the model to get a better page layout.

1/16 and 1/25 scale are common scales in paper tanks...so I might consider either of those.

1/18 will also be considered because of page fit and because my Autocar kits are 1/18 scale.

Thanks for making me think more about this.

 

[CDW]

Just had a dabble on timterweb and it seems the main colour in WW2 for interior was white (as you say it seems reasonable that it will have been the cheapest option)

since 1960 (ish) it seems both white and silver (aluminium) interiors are mentioned being used.

Don't know if that will help any ?

On your models .... absolutly brilliant, such attention to detail that i would have thought difficult to do in paper/card.

Hope to see more of your work and maybe a "work in progress" thread to show us how it's done

One thing though ... A4 is used in all countries worldwide (as the ISO std) apart from Canada and US, and we have the Germans to thank for establishing this paper size (DIN A4)

a few other countries still tend to use "US letter" even though they've adopted the ISO std (Mexico and Phillipines to name two)

 

[cutandfold]

stop it! A4 is silly...we all know that...even my printer spits it out!

..........

white it is then!!

I preferred white anyway. lol

.........

and, after doing some measurements, it seems that 1/16 might be the choice.

Its a little bigger than I had planned, but 1/25 is too small.

 

[cutandfold]

okay, I'm changing my mind again! LOL

This is what I do.

This is the whole point in the beginning...Its all about coming up with a design and assembly method

as well as actually designing the model parts. I have to think about things like "who will buy it?", "will

the parts fit on to standard page sizes?", "what will be the skill level?" and of course "what scale size

makes sense?"

In this case, I really wanted to design and build a BIG model.

1/18 was the original choice, but unlike my unique Armoured Car model, it might not be as well accepted.

So the standard 1/16 seems like the only option...except I am running into a number of issues.

First is the part size and the fact that NOTHING of the central Hull (inner structure and outer 'skins")

fits on a standard page without splitting into multiple parts.

There will obviously be other parts that may have this same issue.

Then theres the thickness of panels and parts. Not everything can be proper scale thickness and doesn't

need to be. But somethings have to be scaled up in thickness for strength and rigidity and some parts

need the illusion of scale thickness and require layers or internal structure. Cutting card and laminating to

2-3-4mm thickness can be a real pain!

And then theres the overall size.

I wanted BIG, but this model will be 2 foot long with Gun barrel!...maybe more?

That might really limit sales of the kit to a select few large scale builders.

Anyway...sorry to be so long winded about this...I have done a complete turnaround and downscaled my

design to 1/25 scale. And I think thats where it should stay (lol)

At 1/25 scale, the Centurion will be about 12" long...add another 4" for barrel?

But most importantly, Hull sides and other large parts fit completely on one standard sheet (Letter or A4)

and that makes a big difference.

End of rant...for now.

Note to Moderator...maybe you could change the title of this thread for me, please?

Just remove the scale size and lets call it "Centurion Tank in Paper"...thanks

 

[cutandfold]

I told ya....

this is not only a long term project, but my usual routine is flip-flop all over the place at first!

Its all about establishing that plan of attack and before I get too far, work out the basics.

In this case, the scale has change AGAIN!

I posted the prelim work (so far) on my two paper modeling forums and the resounding response

has been in favour of a BIG scale model. Almost everyone is asking for 1/16 scale.

So (LOL) the project has changed once again to 1/16 scale.

This also means I have to redraw all the work I've done so far, to compensate for card thicknesses.

At this stage its not just a case of rescaling the drawing.

Regardless of the overall scale, the card and paper that I will use has a set thickness,

so other than laminated thicknesses, I have to apply these measures into the model drawing.

Anyway...next update will hopefully be another sub-frame test build at 1/16.

But in the meantime I have half a dozen P-51 Mustang kits to finish and get to the store.

 

[cutandfold]

Wow...was the site updated while I was away?

Looks different.

A quick update to the Centurion project.

A slight detour with some Aircraft kits...but i will soon be back at the design table

for the Centurion...in 1/16 scale as I mentioned last time.

Seems I may be tasked to build a 1/6 scale version of the WW1 Canadian Armored Car.

A Museum looking for a display piece.

It will definitely interfere with Centurion test building...which will slow down the design process.

Regardless, the Centurion must get done this year!