3D - The writing on the wall - the end of an age?

[Magneto]

I’ve just seen a 3D printed 1/48 Corsair engine. It has all the pipes and looks amazing. I think it’s easy to see which way the wind is blowing. Of course these ‘prints’ need to be painted, etc but it must surely be the next step?

Are we to become the remnants of a bygone era?

Edit: it will be interesting to read any thoughts concerning the above - I am merely posing the question and am not an advocate of said question - my very own stash depends on the long existence of injection moulded kits!


Modelling News 6/11/23

 

[Dave Ward]

I’ve just seen a 3D printed 1/48 Corsair engine. It has all the pipes and looks amazing. I think it’s easy to see which way the wind is blowing. Of course these ‘prints’ need to be painted, etc but it must surely be the next step?

Are we to become the remnants of a bygone era?

Paul, what's the difference between painting a polystyrene injection moulded part & a 3D printed part? There isn't any ! A good paint job
is a good paint job, no matter what it's painted on! 3D printing has it's place, but for the forseeable years, the economies of mass produvtion by injection moulding will beat the slow resin printing. In the fiuture, perhaps, when new materials can eliminate the post processing of resin prints & do away with the toxicity. then maybe. Will everyone soon have a 3D printer? No Idea! 3D printing is still a developing process ( I first saw it in the early 90's ), and at the moment is a esoteric niche market, OK for short run items ( albeit of high quality ) for specific purposes ( like rapid prototyping.- or bits for models! )
Dave

 

[BarryW]

I think Dave is spot on.

One day perhaps we might buy kits as computer programmes to print the parts ourselves but that is a long, long way off. I expect that we will still be buying injection moulded kits in 10-20 years time.

 

[Ian M]

Given the two examples in the photo I would hope that they are not a one piece item. They would be a pain to paint.
I have nothing against the 3D revolution as long as there is common sense involved and not the total opposite of todays norm.
Today: As many parts as possible to really get the detail in.
Tomorrow: A one piece print to show how cleaver we are at printing and how bad you are at painting....

By all means print a model in a 3D printer. Just make it in a way that we still can; A - build something. and B - paint it

 

[David Lovell]

Thats a magnificent piece of technological look at what weve/can be done but why are people worrying unless you've a deep pocket forget it yes its stunning but at a price because mass cheap production isn't happening ,look how fast injection moulding has advanced over the last few years kits today are fantastic to the point that they've bred lazy modelers many forgetting the enjoyment they got from turning a so so kit in to something to be proud of now something is condemned for having a miniscule piece of flash or a seam line ,I notice that they didn't show that engine in its printed cage or what ever its called how much work was involved cutting it all free with the onus being on the purchaser one bad move with the snips thats a whole lot of pocket money down the drain come on guys I'm willing to embrace most things when the time is right ,but it will be much further down the road before it becomes within the grasp of the masses until then admire whats coming but enjoy what we've got now .

 

[Tim Marlow]

This sort of printing will become commonplace once printer speeds increase. Speed is the single biggest reason why commercial take up is currently restricted. Recent innovations have been based around improving resolution. Now resolution is at the point where it cannot meaningfully be improved the next goal will be speed. Remember how fast photography and 2D printing technology changed? That will also happen here.
Currently 3D printing is still mostly home based, and is seen as a hobby. However, faster and more user friendly machines will put this technology squarely in the mainstream. Once that happens, the commercial world will take it over wholesale because the cost balance tips in favour of printing over casting, allowing print on demand to become the norm.
In the gaming figure world printing is fast becoming the go to production method, especially for individual figures. Even the big figure manufacturers are starting to use print on demand as part of their business. Once speeds increase this sector will be completely dominated by print on demand, be it at home or by a printing service. Personally I think the aftermarket add ins will be dominated by this in the next two or three years, and commercial kit manufacture in the next ten or so.

 

[BattleshipBob]

There are some good ships about now but so expensive. 3D Wild are doing a HMS Vanguard but ££

 

[Steve Brodie]

For busts and figures 3d printing is a boom, for price as much as anything else. Undercuts in garments and the high details are amazing. a 1/6th 3D printed bust costs around £30- £35 where as a full resin bust at 1/10th could set you back anything over £50, obviously as its full resin, where the 3D item is hollow.

 

[Gary MacKenzie]

I don't know exactly which version is in the initial post , but here's a link to a version.
It is multiple parts, and the reason ( i think ) will be trying to get supports in places that are inaccesible on the complete print.

 

[wotan]

It is my view that we are looking at two very different offerings. As we can see from the 3D printed example, complex parts will be printed in one piece and assembly will be minimal. Injection molded kits will still contain the multiple tiny parts that need to be assembled and customized to the builders choice. If you want the pleasure of building models then scratch building is the nec plus ultra, modifying a kit comes next and OOB has its own followers. Highly detailed models with very few parts (take busts and figures for example but a wider range is clearly coming, mostly 3D printed ) are primarily for painters to display their skills.

I say fantastic that both styles will continue and get better for many more years.

John

 

[Gern]

Paul, what's the difference between painting a polystyrene injection moulded part & a 3D printed part? There isn't any ! A good paint job
is a good paint job, no matter what it's painted on! 3D printing has it's place, but for the forseeable years, the economies of mass produvtion by injection moulding will beat the slow resin printing. In the fiuture, perhaps, when new materials can eliminate the post processing of resin prints & do away with the toxicity. then maybe. Will everyone soon have a 3D printer? No Idea! 3D printing is still a developing process ( I first saw it in the early 90's ), and at the moment is a esoteric niche market, OK for short run items ( albeit of high quality ) for specific purposes ( like rapid prototyping.- or bits for models! )
Dave

You're right that it doesn't matter whether you're painting plastic or resin - but how many modellers would be able to paint that if it came in one piece? Brassin have clearly broken their A6M2 engine down into parts which even an average modeller should be able to paint to a reasonable standard - although painting the cylinder block would be tricky.

At the end of the day, we're supposed to enjoy our hobby and I can't see anyone but a complete masochist wanting to paint anything that detailed in one piece.

 

[Andy the Sheep]

I agree; it's just a matter of time before 3D printing will be fast and cheap enough to become the mainstream way of producing kits.
From a commercial point of view, I think we'll link our printers to the producer's server and our printer will do its job under the control of the producer or the downloaded file will have a very close expiring date (more risky); should we download the files, then we would have paid for 1 kit and be able to print tenth of kits...
Moreover, 3D printing is now exploring the use of metals to print 1:1 parts (think about the simplification of logistics for a car maker... or an army in the field); probably that technology will become available for kit printing too (tracks, undercarriage legs etc, etc...).
What about the future of model shops? shelves full of resin bottles instead of charming cardboard boxes with their alluring box art... a bit sad.

 

[Magneto]

You're right that it doesn't matter whether you're painting plastic or resin - but how many modellers would be able to paint that if it came in one piece? Brassin have clearly broken their A6M2 engine down into parts which even an average modeller should be able to paint to a reasonable standard - although painting the cylinder block would be tricky.

At the end of the day, we're supposed to enjoy our hobby and I can't see anyone but a complete masochist wanting to paint anything that detailed in one piece.

I’m not sure Gern. I’m not even sure if the aforementioned is in parts. But yeh, I see your point. Once again though I’m no advocate for 3d - in fact…there is a blurring of edges here

 

[Magneto]

I agree; it's just a matter of time before 3D printing will be fast and cheap enough to become the mainstream way of producing kits.
From a commercial point of view, I think we'll link our printers to the producer's server and our printer will do its job under the control of the producer or the downloaded file will have a very close expiring date (more risky); should we download the files, then we would have paid for 1 kit and be able to print tenth of kits...
Moreover, 3D printing is now exploring the use of metals to print 1:1 parts (think about the simplification of logistics for a car maker... or an army in the field); probably that technology will become available for kit printing too (tracks, undercarriage legs etc, etc...).
What about the future of model shops? shelves full of resin bottles instead of charming cardboard boxes with their alluring box art... a bit sad.

Indeed. I think the idea is to use what we have and enjoy it before everything becomes ’press 3D print out - painted - weathered (Option; Desert, tropical, European winter, etc)’ becomes the norm

 

[Magneto]

as I mentioned, blurring of lines.
I have PE and resin ‘kit enhancements’ and then there is 3D.

Question is when does scale modelling stop becoming modelling?

As of now you can get 3D prints is sub assemblies. So you have to assemble and paint/weather.

On the other end of the spectrum you have complete scratch builds without even a box let alone OOB. I guess that is ‘pure’ scale modelling.

So it seems to be a sliding scale between complete scratch build and full on 3D. In summary I suppose the measure of modeller depends on where the slider sits

 

[Peter Gillson]

One aspect nobody has mentioned is the use of 3D software and 3D printers in the design process.

Take Andrea for example; they produce the same figure in multiple scales so it is safe to assume that the original master is produced using 3D sculpting software as opposed to 'pushing putty', but the products they sell seem to still be cast. i think this is the way RP models work. This way they get the best of both worlds - fast and flexible design with proven and fast production - remember casting in white metal is vastly faster than printing, even casting in resin is faster then printing.

there is one further change which has arrived - home scanning. My new Ipad has LiDAR technology and there are a number of apps to use it. i have just downloaded Polycam. In theory I can scan an object and load it into a sculpting program to manipulate. So far I have tested it by scanning a foot stool and loading ito nomad Sculpt where i have been able to maipulate it, and presumably produce a 3D print if I wanted one.

this completely revolutionises sculpting; i should be able to scan a person, so what about scanning a person in full uniform to produce a bust or full figure? scanning re-enactors could allow me to print any number of bespoke busts.

i must book tickets for next year's Military Odyssey!

Peter

 

[Andy the Sheep]

The world is always open to new ideas about how to use new technologies/things in fields they weren't specifically meant for and we modellers know that very well.
At the moment I fear a professional/highly detailed scan of a 1:1 object is still very costly (see HERE to discover how I know it ) but as Peter pointed out, now laser scanning is becoming available on small and widespread devices... who knows what will be available on a smartphone or as an accessory to a PC in 12 months from now?

 

[Dave Ward]

One aspect nobody has mentioned is the use of 3D software and 3D printers in the design process.

Take Andrea for example; they produce the same figure in multiple scales so it is safe to assume that the original master is produced using 3D sculpting software as opposed to 'pushing putty', but the products they sell seem to still be cast. i think this is the way RP models work. This way they get the best of both worlds - fast and flexible design with proven and fast production - remember casting in white metal is vastly faster than printing, even casting in resin is faster then printing.

there is one further change which has arrived - home scanning. My new Ipad has LiDAR technology and there are a number of apps to use it. i have just downloaded Polycam. In theory I can scan an object and load it into a sculpting program to manipulate. So far I have tested it by scanning a foot stool and loading ito nomad Sculpt where i have been able to maipulate it, and presumably produce a 3D print if I wanted one.

this completely revolutionises sculpting; i should be able to scan a person, so what about scanning a person in full uniform to produce a bust or full figure? scanning re-enactors could allow me to print any number of bespoke busts.

i must book tickets for next year's Military Odyssey!

Peter

Peter,
A young lady who used to be on Facebook ( Naomi Wu ) - a reviewer of modern technology & a maker, had a full body scan ( in a bikini ) & made the files available several years ago - I have the files on my computer, I've never printed them, she doesn't appeal to me.
More troublesome is buying & scanning a model, then printing it off & selling copies!! There's absolutely no way this can be prevented, just hope that no-one would be tempted by low prices, from a doubtful source.
Ths raises a question of when something becomes your intellectual property. If, for an example I take a Panzer IV turret & add Zimmerit to it. I scan it & print models - could I legitimately sell these as my work? I have no idea about how laws cover this, I know rip-offs of resin cast busts/figures are freely available from the Far East, is scanning going to extend this & go beyond, to larger models?
Dave

 

[Gern]

It do raise questions. One guy buys a kit, then either builds and scans it or just scans it then sells the scan cheap to anyone with a printer - so the original manufacturer sells one kit instead of 20; 50; 100 ...... Wonder how long they are going to be able to stay in business?

And with the increasing range of materials that can be printed, the whole of the manufacturing sector could be under threat - except of course for the ones who make printers!

Huxley never saw this in his 'Brave New World'.

 

[rtfoe]

One aspect nobody has mentioned is the use of 3D software and 3D printers in the design process.

Take Andrea for example; they produce the same figure in multiple scales so it is safe to assume that the original master is produced using 3D sculpting software as opposed to 'pushing putty', but the products they sell seem to still be cast. i think this is the way RP models work. This way they get the best of both worlds - fast and flexible design with proven and fast production - remember casting in white metal is vastly faster than printing, even casting in resin is faster then printing.

there is one further change which has arrived - home scanning. My new Ipad has LiDAR technology and there are a number of apps to use it. i have just downloaded Polycam. In theory I can scan an object and load it into a sculpting program to manipulate. So far I have tested it by scanning a foot stool and loading ito nomad Sculpt where i have been able to maipulate it, and presumably produce a 3D print if I wanted one.

this completely revolutionises sculpting; i should be able to scan a person, so what about scanning a person in full uniform to produce a bust or full figure? scanning re-enactors could allow me to print any number of bespoke busts.

i must book tickets for next year's Military Odyssey!

Peter

Tammy already does this. Just look at their latest figures accompanying their latest armoured vehicles.
I think the ones that would suffer from the new technology are the classic putty sculptors and PE makers(if 3D goes fully into ship parts). The category on just primer painted scratch building will be a rarity and judges will have their hands full picking out the differences.

Cheers,
Wabble