Airbrush questions

[Lady_Phoenix]

I am so very sorry to ask this, you have probably seen, or answered this a thousand times

So, here is my story.

Havent built kits since I was a kid. My most recent experience is as a Games Workshop modeller but now made a return to Aircraft, blah blah.

Bought a few kits from e-bay with the intention of using them to practice but turns out kits are too lovely to risk screwing up.

So, decided it time to buy and learn to use an air brush. Do my research on the net and to be honest the more I look the more Im confused. However, what Ive decided is that I woud prefer to use acrylics to airbrush with. This is mostly through lazyness as cleaning is easier and cheaper (Water costs less than thinners).

So, I go to my local model shop (Which is 30 miles away in Dereham) to buy some paints for my B-25. This is totally unrelated to he need for an airbrush, as Ive still got to spend a million hours painting the inside and all I have is borrowed paints. Time o get my own.

Well, suddenly Im presented with Humbrol Acrylics and enamals, as well as Revell Acrylics and Enamals. So I ask the guy what he would use and he suggests Humbrol Enamals for brush painting and Humbrol Acrylics for air brushing. BINGO, he has just answered a question that I was going to ask him later on.

Later on, as planned, I start o discuss airbrushes. He showed me one which he suggested for a beginner (Using bottled air), then another when I got better, going on to a revell Airbrush, this one

REVELL AIRBRUSH BASIC SET WITH COMPRESSOR (39197) on eBay (end time 20-Oct-10 23:52:40 BST)

(Forgive the e-bay link, i chose that as it was the same)

So, I asked him rather than spend over £200 in airbrushes and ending up with 3 why not just spend £120 and get the revell one? He said that was fine.

So, I would like to put a few questions to you, the wonderful readers of this forum.

* Is it a really bad idea o go straight for a good airbrush? I plan to buy a few plastic sheets and practice on th3em before I go anywhere n3ear my aircraft.

* Do you agree with the enamal for brushes and acrylics for airbrush theory?

* (Excuse the terminology) Whats the difference between gravity fed and one that sucks it out of the bottle? Is the bottle needed with a gravity fed version?

* Is that Revel airbrush actually any good? Could I get a better one for less money.

And my final question, which is aimed purey at any norfolk based model clubs.

* Can I turn up to a meeting with an airbrush in my hand screaming "Help, I cant take it anymore, please show me how to use it"?

 

[Fenlander]

Oooo, lots of cans of worms. I personally think you would be far better starting with one of the airbrush sets that the guys use on here for less than the Revell if budget is an issue. The revell is probably a basic Badger AB which is not so bad, however, the 'Mini Compressor' will be a diaphragm compressor which tend to be very pulsing, and are not known for long life.

I am firmly of the belief that you should get the best you can afford but if the money is tight, then the sets of a piston compressor and a Chinese AB that can be bought from ebay for £50 to £70 will be a better choice than above in my humble opinion. I would think that someone will post a link soon so hang on a bit. There are too many people start with these setups and find them OK for it to be wrong.

If you have about £300, then go to the forum shop and get an Iwata AB and compressor, you would not regret it. I just wish I had £300 to do the same.

If you take your AB to you model club and they won't help then all I can say is 'Shame on them' :laughing:

 

[stona]

I'd go with what Graham said. I'd think a gravity fed brush is best. Usually the paint cup is integral to the body of this type of airbrush so a seperate paint bottle is not needed. You'll definitely use waste less paint with a gravity feed.

I paint detail with enamel paints (Humbrol and White Ensign) and spray acrylics so to me it sounds like good advice! You can of course use only one type.

Cheers

Steve

 

[m1ks]

Spraymaster High Detail Gravity Feed d/a Airbrush Kit on eBay (end time 28-Oct-10 21:55:47 BST)

These brushes and sellers on ebay are very good, I bought a set similar when I started and though the brush is good these Spraymaster ones are sturdier and nicer, I bought one of the SM brushes a few months ago and love it, costs decent too.

Enamels and acrylics, you can spray and brush both, the main difference is

Enamels brush well and spray amazingly well

Acrylics brush awkwardky, (at least two coats for good coverage) and spray well.

Acrylics are more eco friendly and easier to clean so the choice is really yours, I love enamels but they take an age to dry so often choose acrylic over them but have a play and see.

 

[Gern]

* Is it a really bad idea o go straight for a good airbrush? I plan to buy a few plastic sheets and practice on th3em before I go anywhere n3ear my aircraft.

Don't go buying stuff to practise on! I'll leave the other more knowledgeable folk to advise you on paint and brushes, but for practise, use plastic drinks containers - much cheaper than buying sheets!

They will even allow you to practise masking curved shapes.

Gern

 

[Lady_Phoenix]

Many thanks for the advice, really really appreciated, however, Im going to change my plan slightly.

Someone (Sorry, dont know who) has taken a lot of time and energy, and possibly money to create this forum, which, I have to say, has failed to let me down to date, so only seems fair that I help out by purchasing via the forum shop.

Budget, well thats a funny one. Im not the richest person on this forum, but at the same time I believe in value for money and purchasing the best you can. This saying I have a weekly budget of say about £50 a week. If the best advice is to buy a £200 air brush then Ill probably buy one in 4 weeks, if the best one is £300 then Ill buy in about 6 weeks. Does that help anyone out.

I would prefer to buy one brush and one brush only, however, in 6 months or so I dont see anything wrong with purchasing a new, better one, and donating the older one to a newbie.

So it looks like its going to be an Iwata AB for £300, and special thanks for the advice on practicing on a drinks bottle. Awesome advice, why didnt I think of that.

 

[Fenlander]

If you go with the Forum Shop, John, the creator of the forum and Shop will advise you. As you may be aware, he has been a bit tied up due to technical problems caused by moving the forum on to a new server to improve performance, these things sadly do happen. I use the Iwata Revolution CR which is superb at £72.89. One day I will get an Iwata compressor such as the Sprint Jet at £179 or, if I can push to it the Smart Jet Pro at £214.99.

The main difference between the two is that although neither have a tank, the have a hose which stops the pulsing and gives a very good airflow. The Smart jet detects when the airbrush is not being used and switches off the compressor. The Sprint Jet will continue to run and you have to switch it on and off as you need it. No sense in the compressor running while you are not spraying. Not as big a problem as it sounds as you tend to set up, spray and clean over quite a short period of time. So, a good AB and Compressor can be as little as £251.89. OK, you can get a compressor and airbrush for a quarter of that but you will have the Iwata setup for many years to come with the full backup of spares and customer support that will not leave you out in the dark when a seal goes or you need a new needle.

You can PM John, just put John in the PM Recipient User name and Airbrush in the subject and whatever you want to know in the message and he will get back to you with whatever advice he can give you. From experience, you will get your stuff in about two working days, the service is superb.

 

[Caledonia]

Hi Penelope, I have been using the IWATA Revolution CR Airbrush and the IWATA Smart Jet Pro for about 18 Months now, made quite a few models using it, and would recommend it unreservedly. Unless you plan to write artitles in the aero modelling magazines, this set would suit the amatuer to advanced amatuer for a very long time. The compressor is quiet, and only runs when you press the trigger. I found the YouTube video below very helpful, to overcome my fear when I first started. As my mum used to say, buy as dear as you can afford. Cheers Derek

 

[m1ks]

You certainly can't go wrong with an Iwata, The CR gets rave reviews everywhere and John's, (Shop and forum meister), service is really excellent and very fast, i've ordered and gotten the order the following day before.

The really good thing of course is that Iwatas have a long guarantee period.

I'd say go for the CR and a spare 0.3mm Needle / Nozzle and cap, (the CR comes with a 0.5mm), this will cover all modelling airbrush needs for years to come, the higher end ones won't offer anything to a general modeller.

Rather than spend out on an Iwata brand name compressor however, i'd recommend that you'd be better spending £100 - £200, (if you're planning on that outlay) on a small quiet compressor with tank from a parts place such as Machine Mart, otherwise the basic type as in my previous ebay link will be plenty good enough

 

[Lady_Phoenix]

Thanks again for the advice.

Ive managed to find a friend who owns an airbrush so he will (Hopefully today or tomorrow) be showing me how to use it. Also thanks to Dave for telling me not to buy plastic sheets. I have a job through an agency at a factory putting labels on chicken portion containers and buy coincidence some of the containers seem to have leapt into my bag

 

[Ian M]

Just to add to the confussion of which paints to use, I use Vallejo Model color acrylics, All of them spray well and I have no problems with a good old fashioned paint brush. One thing though, brushes with synthetic hair seem to work better that natural hair brushes, well worth the extra couple of bob.

Only ever use Distilled water for thinning water base paint. Chalk in the water WILL chock up your air brush and also will effect the paint. (It can make it crack or flake and reduces the adhesion).

For a true gloss finnish though you just cant beat Enamels. (well you can but thats two pack and I dont think you are quite ready for that just yet)!

I use a "Cheap Chinese" Air brush, From the firm SparMax. They have been making them for every one for years now they sell their own. Cheap? Well i brought two, a tiny one for detail that holds just about a brush or two of paint. Great for all those piddly little bits. The other holds about enough to paint a 1/48 airplane, say a Tornado or such. I am sure John will set up up well.

As far as learning to use one when you get it. My advise? Just get on with it. You can read all the books in the world on the subject and you will know all kinds of things; Except how that airbrush you have in your hand will react. Find your coke bottle sandwich box, flowerpots, cat and go for it.

If painting cats I STRONGLY recommend Water base acrylic paints as they are much easier to wash out of fur than Enamels!!!

Have fun

Ian M

 

[Lady_Phoenix]

Right Ive done it. Ive bought an airbrush.

Basicaly I wanted to buy an airbrush from the Scale Model forum shop, and I still intend to do so. However a combination of beng skint and being impatient meant I wanted one NOW.

I had my eye on the Humbrol blister packed airbrush and a can of air and a couple of spare bottles for the paint. However, the guy in the shop (Hobby World in Dereham, on a bad day gets a 9/10 ratng from me) didnt have the humbrol blister packed airbrush but instead offered me the cheapest AB which is a Revell starter pack. OK, it cost £20 more than budgeted but included a can of air and comes with 5 bottles (Except that 4 of them have paint, ceaners etc in them)

Now, the guy has advised me that the spray size is large and the only real use for it is paintng large areas such as fuselages and wings, which is by coincidence what I want it for.

So Have I wasted my money?

The other thing is this.

Ive had a little play with the AB using water but either Im holding it wrong or there is a problem, but there seems to be a fine spray coming out of the side of the brush? Anyone know whats happened?

 

[Ian M]

Is it comming out of the nozzle but just spraying it side ways or it the spray comming from another place altogether?

If its comming out where its supposed to, it might just be the nozzle is blocked.

Can you do a picture and mark where that spray is comming from.

Ian M

 

[Bunkerbarge]

I completely agree with the comeent about enamels and high gloss finishes. I used only Humbrol enamels for years and achieved some pretty good gloss finishes with a brush, which was far better than I could achieve with acrylics or spray cans at the time. I still think a well applied enamel gloss takes some beating.

 

[Lady_Phoenix]

Just had another play with it.

Its no longer spraying sideways. Im going to guess that the reason this happened before was because I was outside spraying water when it happened and I guess the wind caught the spray.

Right, this is what happened (Pay attention, Ill be asking questions )

I put in the jar of primer (Basic). Had a go and the nozzle kept jamming up. I had originally thought that it would be thin enough to use straight from the bottle. The mix was very very "dotty" and not even at all. I assume it was too thick to use straight from the bottle?

Cleaned up the gun etc and put a mix of 1 part primer and 1 part thinner in a clean bottle and had another go and not too bad. However, there appeared to be a little bit of bubbling on places. Would this be due to the mix running out?

Ive left it a bit and although it isnt "totally" dry the bubbling seems to have settled down. The coverage seems good but a little patchy, Which I think is more my spraying ablity rather than the paint, and may also be due to where I sprayed straight from the bottle.

Later on Ill give it another go but with a larger volume of "solution" to cover the surface properly. ATM it doesnt feel "Rough" so I dont think Ive sprayed thick blobs everywhere.

BTW - Im painting a chicken portion tray. Quite handy really as its got lots of right angles, corners and its not perfectly flat (Rough surface). The primer is grey and when Ive covered it all Ill go over again in black.

So, am I right about the paint being too think?

Is it bubbly because the paint was starting to run out?

TIA

 

[Ian M]

Penny, Sounds like you are having fun with your new toy!

I will try to explain the most common problems with airbrush work and hopefully set a bit of light on a few problems.

Should this not make any sence at all please PM me your e-mail and I will send you a PDF file I have from Badger.

The most common problem when airbrushing is findint the ballance between airpresure and the viscosity of the medium you wish to use. The thicker the liquid, the more air will be needed to blow it out of the hole!

Water like paints; inks will need a low air pressure. Acrylic paints will need more air the thicker its mixed- Thus the comparison to milk. You know that white stuff that runs down the side of a glass but leaves a fine film on said glass. ( were talking orinary milk not none of that low fat chalk water cr#9).

Its all in the wrist. to get an even coat of paint on a surface, you need to man up and stiffen your wrists and use the most of your arm!!! If you keep your arm still and move your wrist, the airbrush is in effect moving towards and away from the subject we are trying to paint. Not good, you end up with too much paint in the middle, and not enough at the ends. Stiff wrist and move your arm and the airbrush stays the same distance from the subject and thus the paint is hitting it with the same density in the whole lenght of the run. With me so far?. Good then I will carry on.

The problems with paint. The problems with paint are right in front of you. You just need to know how to read the results of your efforts. I will try to explain.

View attachment 20662

1) Grainy spray. The paint is to thick. thin it gradually or adjust the air pressure UP

2) The paint is to thin, pools up or runs. Add more paint to the mix and or turn the air DOWN.

3) If you are painting cotton buds, its a coordination thing; you are stating the paint before you move your hand and stopping the paint after your hand has stopped. Remember, Move, Air on, Paint on - Paint off, air off, stop.

4) Is a bit tricky as often its not easy to see- You are turning your wrist at the stat and end of the run.

5)Creapy crawlies! One of my favorites. To much air to much paint to close to the work!

for finer lines you need very little air and very little paint- you just need to hit the same line several times to get a good coverage.

6)Splatter, Most often caused by stopping the air befor te paint. This leaves small globs of paint in the guard which can be blow off when you start to paint again. OR if you let the trigger go ad the needle snaps back into the nozzle. Or the nozzle is stating to clog up.

7)You are painting with your wrist and not keeping the brush parallel to the work.

8) No picture for this one! If the paint bubbles up in the cup or glass, there could be a blockage in the tip, or the paint regulator and or nozzle are not tight enough.

9) still on picture, so stop looking for it!!! paint comes out of the nozzle even though you have only turned on the air: There is something in the nozzle that is preventing the needle from closing the hole. Time to clean up.

Hope that helps with some of the issues that we newbies stumble upon from time to time.

Ian M

View attachment 27728

 

[Lady_Phoenix]

Ian this is brilliant.

Prior to your post I had a go at priming a fuselage and it turned out slightly bubbled. I looked for help on you tube and found a video that suggests I may have been spraying from too far away. The video suggests 6" away MAX. This kind of figures as the inside of my spray booth (Cardboard box) is excellently primed. The video says that if you are too far away the paint starts to dry before it hits the model. So Im liking that advice. Im also wondering if I should thin the primer down even more, instead of 1:1 (Well actually 4:4) perhaps try 6:5. If no improvement Ill try 7:5 etc etc

Im also liking your advice about the wrists. I think Ive been moving my wrist AND my arm, which explains why coverage isnt so good on the ends of the model.

I cant adjust the paint or air flow as its a cheap old revel starter set AB. Im not going to knock it as the guy in the shop said that its got a wide coverage. Its too wide for weathering but for large coverage (such as 1/48 scale wings and fuselages) its good and it does exactly what he said it does. The problem isnt the AB, its me. He also said that he knows people who use a cheap AB like this for large coverage and a better one (Such as the Iwata one) for fine detail and weathering.

I shall be sending you e-mail too appreciate any hep I can get. If its ok though, nce you send me the PDF I'll publish it here, no point gathering useful info and keeping it to myself.

 

[stona]

That's a great reply from Ian. I'd just like to add that everything is a balancing act. The vital components are paint viscosity and air pressure both of which contribute to the spraying distance. I'd say 6" is a maximum for any airbrush. Your brush has limited options but you'll crack it with a bit of practice. It sounds like you are well on the way already.

Cheers

Steve