Beware Culose Thinners and Valejo or Xtracrylix acrylic paint

[Stevekir]

A couple of years ago I used Tamiya gloss lacquer (spray can) to produce a very good mirror finish using my Harder and Steenbeck CR+ (0.4 mm needle). The thinner/cleaner is Cellulose Thinners.  I used lots of this thinners to very thoroughly clean the AB (including use of an ultrasonic cleaner) and did not use it for some months. I then tried to spray Vallejo Model Air through it but had constant blockages, sometimes after only a few seconds. I had in the end to replace the needle and the nozzle. I mentioned this on this forum but no-one could confirm this.  I have just been viewing the ISM (International Scale Modeller Thinners Guide:

and the speaker strongly warned never to use the same airbrush with Cellulose Thinners or any paint which has that as its thinner, and then, for a later airbrushing session, either Vallejo or Xtracrylic paint. The result will be mush that will not be cleaned.


This seems to be confirmation of this. I certainly will never do that again. Be warned.

 

[dubster72]

I can't speak for what happened to you Steve, but I've flushed my AB with cellulose thinner after spraying VMA & Ammo by Mig without any problems at all. I do follow that with a water flush to be sure that any remainder is gone to protect the seals. (Airbrush seals, not swimming ones!)


In fact, I'm surprised by what happened. Cellulose thinner will dissolve anything & due to its high flashpoint, any residue evaporates away very quickly.


Obviously never mix cellulose thinner with a product such as VMA, Lifecolor, AK Interactive et al to actually thin them, because that will create a gloopy mess.

 

[Fenlander]

Can't say I have had problems after cleaning with cellulose thinners.  It does evaporate very quickly and I have used Mig paints shortly after cleaning with it with no issues.  I would never soak the airbrush in the stuff though as it may get to parts that I didn't want it in and there would be no need for it.


I do know that IPA used as a thinner will turn Vallejo into gloop but apart from that, I don't have issues.  I have thinned Tamiya with Cellulose before with great results but that was before I could get their proper thinner locally.

 

[Dave W]

I cant see how cellulose thinners caused this problem.Unless it has been used in an airbrush that has rubber seals?. Ive used Humbrol Enamel,tamiya,vallejo and revell acrylic paints in my Iwata airbrush for the past 4 years with no problems.I dont clean it as often as i should. And i find cellulose thinners is good for cleaning out any type of dried paint in the airbrush.

 

[colin m]

After using cellulose thinners (normally having just sprayed Alclad) I always strip the AB completely to remove the 'mush' mentioned. The cellulose thinners does a great job of removing all the dried paint hidden in the AB.

 

[Stevekir]

I believe that he seals in my Harder and Steenbeck CR+ are not rubber but the higher quality.


Interesting. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but will I ever have the confidence to do it again?!

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

I use an Iwata Eclipse HP CS and an Iwata Hi Line HP CH. These all have cellulose resistant teflon seals.


I normally use Gunze GSI acrylics, but have used vallejo before. I normally clean the airbrush out at the end of the day with cellulose and fully strip it down, reassemable it and leave it there overnight and then I come back the next day. It has worked for me so far... 


However, I have never used cellulose in between the day, unless I am using lacquers, which only my Eclipse takes, and unless it has a serious blockage

 

[Deadhead]

I also normally also use a CS or even a G35 or Neo on occasions. I use Celli to thin enamels & to clean out the brushes after use. Before spraying acrylic I always flush out with water first to clear out any celli residue. I have never had any issues by doing this.

 

[Fenlander]

ISM also have a vested interest in people buying their UMP products.  They use many other people's ideas developed over time to 'make' their products and even re label Badger Stynylrez as their UMP primer.  I am not saying they do anything illegal but they do have an intense marketing strategy to sway people. They do a video of how you can clean a 'dried up' airbrush with Ultimate Airbrush Cleaner.  I recreated a similar test using Halfords car screen wash undiluted and got the same results.  It is also blue like theirs  9_9

 

[Stevekir]

Well, it seems the mystery of my permanent blockage remains unsolved.

 

[dubster72]

Well, it seems the mystery of my permanent blockage remains unsolved.

Unless... here's a tale of weirdness that might shed some light on things....


I don't use acrylics much, but I do use Tamiya thinned with cellulose thinner. I keep handy amounts of both white spirit & cellulose thinner in old jam jars - properly labelled of course  :ph34r:


One fine day I was merrily spraying said Tamiya paints & wanted to thin what I already had in the paint cup. Without realising, I inadvertently took the jam jar containing the white spirit  :$


The result of mixing the 3 substances was that the paint dramatically separated into a thick blob & clogged my airbrush  >


Now I have no idea if your cellulose thinner was somehow contaminated Steve, but the result of my carelessness is similar to yours.

 

[Stevekir]

Unless... here's a tale of weirdness that might shed some light on things....

Hmmm... I certainly didn't use White Spirit, nor contaminated Cellulose Thinners which came straight from a new can. However, your post shows how chemicals can mess thing up when wrongly mixed.

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

Yes.. Cellulose/lacquer thinner turns vallejo into a gloopy mess that is an absolute pain to clean out of your airbrush


I used to use the vallejo thinner with vallejo. I tend to stick to what the manufacturer recommends with acrylics. However, I use white spirits for enamels and cellulose and Mr Color thinner for lacquers

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

ISM also have a vested interest in people buying their UMP products.  They use many other people's ideas developed over time to 'make' their products and even re label Badger Stynylrez as their UMP primer.  I am not saying they do anything illegal but they do have an intense marketing strategy to sway people. They do a video of how you can clean a 'dried up' airbrush with Ultimate Airbrush Cleaner.  I recreated a similar test using Halfords car screen wash undiluted and got the same results.  It is also blue like theirs  9_9

Concerning the Badger primer, that is very true, and the people who own UMP have said that Badger primer is their primary primer and a few months later, bingo! UMP Primer with basically the same properties and most likely formula to Badger primer 


I found that the international scale modeller forum was created solely to sell their stuff, and not for the community and building advice....


I don't use the UMP products anyway, I use Mr hobby products, and steer away from vallejo purely on a personal perference, and use AK, Mig and AMMO products for weathering.


Their so called "patented" PE Placer is sold a lot cheaply by RB productions who really were the ones who made it. 


Their washes are pretty much the same as HGW and Flory models washes......


As a matter of fact, I find their forum pretty obnoxious (pardon my harsh criticism, but it's true. I have over 300 posts on their forum, and the atmosphere was not great at all)

 

[Stevekir]

Yes.. Cellulose/lacquer thinner turns vallejo into a gloopy mess that is an absolute pain to clean out of your airbrush


I used to use the vallejo thinner with vallejo. I tend to stick to what the manufacturer recommends with acrylics. However, I use white spirits for enamels and cellulose and Mr Color thinner for lacquers

This indicates that actually mixing Vallejo acrylic paint with Cellulose Thinners (which must have happened in this poster's case) causes trouble. My mystery (in my original post above) is that I cleaned out the AB very well indeed after using the Vallejo acrylic paint before using the  lacquer (Cellulose Thinners-based), followed by thorough cleaning with the C. Thinners, then cleaning with the normal Vallejo AB fluid, setting the AB aside for about 6 weeks before using the Vallejo acrylic paint which is when the major blocking happened.

 

[dubster72]

This indicates that actually mixing Vallejo acrylic paint with Cellulose Thinners (which must have happened in this poster's case) causes trouble. My mystery (in my original post above) is that I cleaned out the AB very well indeed after using the Vallejo acrylic paint before using the  lacquer (Cellulose Thinners-based), followed by thorough cleaning with the C. Thinners, then cleaning with the normal Vallejo AB fluid, setting the AB aside for about 6 weeks before using the Vallejo acrylic paint which is when the major blocking happened.

Did you flush the airbrush with water after using the cellulose thinner Steve? If not, perhaps that's the cause where the residue of cellulose thinner has reacted with the Vallejo airbrush cleaner.

 

[Stevekir]

Did you flush the airbrush with water after using the cellulose thinner Steve? If not, perhaps that's the cause where the residue of cellulose thinner has reacted with the Vallejo airbrush cleaner.

Well! So the Vellejo cleaner itself might have reacted with the C. Thinners. I hadn't thought of that! Thanks.

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

Well! So the Vellejo cleaner itself might have reacted with the C. Thinners. I hadn't thought of that! Thanks.

That's what I was trying to convey mate. Vallejo products in general don't mix with lacquer or cellulose