Billing's Cutty Sark 1:75 Help. Newbie

[DerekBell]

Hi Guys. Great site, glad I found it.

I was recently given the Billing Boats Cutty Sark 564 model as a gift, and am looking forward to building it, it should go well with a plastic Thermopylae I did several years ago.

My main question is, None of my wood has any sort of detail on it (the decking, windows doors etc). I have contacted Billing's America, they were helpful, but havent fully answered my question, and I dont want to hassle them too much. They said none of this detail was included, and needed to be "drawn in" before assembly, but I dont appear to have any real size plans to copy off, other than the full model scale drawing.

Have any of you guys had any experiance with this model, where did you get the detail from to draw onto the model peices. I could simply trace it from the full model drawing, but this doesnt show all the detail im after.

This appears to be a beautiful model, and I want to give it the detail it deserves.

Thanks in advance.

Derek

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Hi Derek and a warm welcome to the forum. Have a good look around and se what we have tucked away in archives as regards build tutorials and hints & tips that may be of help to you. I can't say I have any experience with this particular model but if you let us know a bit more about what sort of detail you are referring to we may be able to help. I agree I always try to get as much realistic detail in as possible so I understand you wanting to do justice to this kit. If you could post any pictures that may also help.

Above all enjoy your modelling and your time with us.

 

[Caledonia]

Hi Derek,

I made this kit about 25 years ago, see link below. I am sure that on my kit the deck housings etc had printed detail on it. The deck also had printed planking, but I substituted mahogany strips for realism. When I bought my model the fittings had to be purchased seperately from the Ship's kit.

Are you based in America?

Cheers Derek

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/ship-boat-pictures/7913-billings-cutty-sark.html

p.s. the Thermopylae was built in Aberdeen, there is of course a great debate as to which was the faster Clipper.

 

[DerekBell]

Hi Guys. Thanks for the replies.

Im in Adelaide, Australia..

I had seen your previous pics of the ship, just made me more anxious to get started, beautiful build.

I have a feeling there is supposed to be something printed on the wood, I think its a bit strange to have that detail missing, and nothing to copy it off of..

I have included some pics to let you guys know what im refering to. Some of the pics are another build sent to me by Billing's, as a help.

Nowdays you get the mahoggany, and all the fitings etc as part of the kit, even though the instructions dont mention what the mahoggany is for, but I assumed it was for the decking, and this was verified by Billing's and now you as well.

I did some small research some time ago re the Thermopylae, this is where I got the idea to build the cutty sark from.

I will likely end up returning it to the store to see if they can chase it further..

Thanks again

Derek

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[Caledonia]

Hi Derek, I am positive that all the wood was printed as indicated in your plan drawing, including the deck planking. I think you must have had a bad batch, happens some times. I remember that the figure head on my kit, half of it was missing, I wrote to Billings in Denmark and received the missing piece in 24 Hours.

You can down load the instructions from the link below, these instructions show all of the wooden parts have printing on them. Might be worth emailing Billings direct, they are a good company to deal with. Good luck with your project, post some photo's when you are ready. Cheers Derek

http://www.billingboats.com/instructions/BB564%20Cutty%20Sark_Instruction.pdf

 

[DerekBell]

Thanks Derek

Thats the same manual you get with the kit. Its what got me thinking something was missing, as you mentioned, it clearly shows detail printed on the wood..

Will definaely post some pics along the way. Its been 10-15 years since I did the Thermopylae, and have recently recaught the bug, finishing a Tamiya Missouri, and about 3/4 through an F-14 Tomcat build.

The cutty sark will be my first wood build, but am looking forward to the challenge. Will likely need to return here a few times for any help on possible snags I may come across, specially as youve built it before, even if it was 20+ years ago.

Thanks again for the replies.

Derek

 

[Caledonia]

Hi Derek, will try to help if I can. Which Tomcat are you doing? I have the 1/72 Hasegawa F-14B 'VF-103' Jolly Roger scheduled after my current E.E. Lightning F6. Cheers Derek

 

[DerekBell]

Hi Derek.

No worries, It will be interesting to see what I come against when I start it.

I took it back to the store, who contacted the importer, and again, got the answer its not included, im still not convinced, I simply cant beleive billing's go to all the trouble of including all the fittings, and making the kit fairly acurate, and then expect us to put the major stuff (windows, planking etc) on ourselves, specially, if it is wrong, it will stuff the whole thing up. I can get the top and sides details from the plan, but don't have front and back, I may need to blow up the wood layout plan, and get it all from there.

So I have now sent an e-mail to Belgium, unfortunately Denmark doesn't have an e-mail..

Overall, I must say im a bit dissapointed, but will see what belgium says first.

Im off work now untill next year, it will be good to start on this build..

The F-14 is the Tamiya Grumman F-14A tomcat 1:32.. Its a great model, still fairly easy to assemble, typical of tamiya, great manuals etc. Ive got the fuse etc together, and am getting ready to paint the fuse. Will post a pic once im finished.

Derek

 

[DerekBell]

Ive made a start. I scanned and blew up the plans to real size, and copied the detail over. So far so good, havent started on any of the technical stuff though..

Hadn't got any reply from Belgium, they may be on holidays. But made a start anyway. Will be interesting to see what they say.

I will post some pics along the way, may end up being a help to others looking at this kit, they can learn from my mistakes as well

Thanks for any help

 

[PeteA]

Hi. Have you had any luck with Belguim yet?

I have started a 20 year old kit of the same (passed on to me by my father, who now doesn't have the patience needed).

The decking and all cabin panels are in deed printed with detailing (planking, doors, etc) albeit in a basic manner. I could scan the panels and send images if it would like.

As an aside, i have a bigger issue; my kit was sold in the days when the fitting kit was additional. Because my father never started the model, he never bought the kit. Now Billing only do an all-in kit; they can supply me with just the fitting kit but the cost is almost as much as the complete kit. Because of the sentimental attachment, I am loathed to either just buy a complete kit or buy the fitting for the cost of a complet kit.

 

[DerekBell]

No. Havent heard anything yet. I may resend it later.

Pity you havent got the fittings etc. I would probably buy a full kit if the price is similar, this will give you some backup parts as well, you could use it as a "practice setup" or sell it to someone who may want one without fittings. I can fully understand the sentimental value in the kit though.

I am getting there, Im, just about done with the hull frame, and starting to plank it out, glad Ive had some experiance with building stuff before, it will be very simple to make some large mistakes and stuff it up. You need to fit the deck as you build the hull, not do it as per the book, else none of it will fit.

Am enjoying the build so far, will post some pics later, am having some PC issues at the moment.

Derek

 

[DerekBell]

A couple new questions

Hello again guys, trust youve all had a good new year so far..

Have been getting there, have made a small mistake, am still trying to think of a way to fix it, but will get there eventually, basically I put one of the mast extensions on the wrong way, but all in all it probably wont be that much of a disaster, just annoying for me , you may be able to see it in the pic.

Anyway have a few questions for those out there that may know the boat, or the build. Unfortunately the manuals are extremely vague.

The mast Yard chains look like they go through the masts to the blocks, and then to the deck through the rigging, is this correct (see the masts pic), theres basically 3-4 per mast, if so I will need to drill some holes in the masts to put the chain through.

Does the rigging attach to the deck as shown in the deck pic, or should it all be on the rail with all the rigging pins in it. I will likely drill through the deck and glue the rigging into this for added strength.

Where does the lifeboat wood (167A, life boats in the manual) go, it doesn't fit the lifeboats and I cant find them anywhere in the manual or the plans, see the lifeboats pic, and am contemplating building some canvas covers for the upward facing lifeboats, as this would be more realistic, but may end up being more trouble than its worth.

And finally, I have seen some you-tube footage of the cutty, it shows an aft door to the capitans quarters, but the model only has the forward doors, was the aft doors a later addition to the boat, or is the model missing this..

I will upload some more pics as I go in the appropriats sections, I am really enjoying this build, but can understand why billings class it as a difficult build.

Thanks again

Derek

















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[Caledonia]

Hi Derek, All your upper mast sections should be rotated 180 Deg. Everyone has their own sequence for building, but I would strongly recommend you finish the hull before you put on the masts etc. You really need the hull upside down and be able to rotate it during fitting the hull planking, and all the sanding that follows. I suggest you plank the hull from the deck down. Soak the planks in warm water for a few minutes before you try to bend them round the stern etc. I would also strongly recommend you finish all the deck housing, winches etc before you think about rigging

Have attached some photos of how the mast chains go with enlargements. You have to make small padeyes with the copper wire provided and glue these into holes you have to drill on the mast, see photo B6, when bending the wire, you have to thread it through the chain before closing the eye.

Most of the of the rigging goes on the rails, but there are a few from the sails which goes on the deck, study the rigging drawing carefully. I used a hot needle to drill the holes for the blaying pins.

I think the lifeboat wood you circle is for the floor of the lifeboat. I stained all my Lifeboat mahogany before fitting

Hope this helps. But please please finish the hull and all deck fitting, winches etc, finish paint them before you think about masts, rigging etc

I'm not criticising, just trying to help, best of luck.

Cheers Derek

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[DerekBell]

Thanks for all that Derek.

I will be finishing the hull etc before attaching the masts, I have only installed them temporarily at the moment to keep them out of the way and avoid damage. I did notice after posting I had them all 180 degrees out, so need to turn them all around.

I purely built the masts now as I want to put the rigging that goes into the deck in now, and wanted the masts in place to get lengths, I will likely put the rigging through the deck and tie it off underneath, rather than purely relying on the glue to hold it in place, I can then bag all this rigging and continue on with the hull build.

Not 100% sure what your meaning with pad-eyes for the chains, but think you may need to line the holes with the pad-eyes to stop the chain damaging the masts, or were you refering to where the chain attaches to all the parts?.

My next step is installing the upper forward deck, and finishing that all off, have sealed the timber underneath with sanding clear to ensure it wont deteriorate over time

Thanks for the tips re wetting the strips, should make it much easier. And good idea re installing all the deck fittings beforehand.

Have noticed a few more differences, my plans show the masts all white, the yards are still blue, and the deck is mahoggany, not sure how acurate this is. They are also now using small wooden blocks for all the rigging now too, so will have to paint all these as well, and it looks like all the blaying pin holes are pre drilled now as well. But do recall you saying yours was quite some time ago.

Its good to have someone who has tackled all this before.

Thanks again.

Derek

ps have resent to belguim as well, will be interesting to see what they say.

 

[Caledonia]

Thanks for all that Derek.Not 100% sure what your meaning with pad-eyes for the chains, but think you may need to line the holes with the pad-eyes to stop the chain damaging the masts, or were you refering to where the chain attaches to all the parts?.

Hi Derek, re the above point, I am refering to fixing the chain to the mast. if you look at photo B6 below you will see the chain is fixed to the mast by means of a padeye or eye-bolt made from copper wire. Glad to see the masts were not fixed. I really liked doing the planking of the hull, hope you do too. Cheers Derek

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[DerekBell]

This is where im a little confused, I can now understand what your saying, but my drawings show the chains going through the mast then down to the yards, without attaching to the mast. You get small eye-bolts to attch to the yards, and then attach the chain to these. I think your saying the chains should attach to the mast, and then down to the yards.

Thanks again for all the help, and the pics. Am looking forward to planking the hull, it will be good to see the shape slowly come out.

Derek

 

[Caledonia]

Hi Derek, Sorry for the confusion, you are quite right, a hole has to be drilled through the mast and the chain passes from the yard through the mast down to the block. I have downloaded the PDF from Billings to help my memory it's about 25 Years since I built my one, and there are some obvious changes to the kit.

I had the fortune to go onboard the Cutty Sark in 1991 long before the last fire, and one big discrepency I noticed was Billings supply mahogany planking for those who wanted to plank the deck as I did, rather than leave the printed deck sheet, but when I was onboard, some 6 years after I finished my model the deck was almost white. You can understand this on the real ship with all the sea water coming onboard and the daily scrubbing of the deck by the deckhands. If I were building the model again I would use lime wood strips.

Sorry for the confusion again, will try to help if I can with any future queries. Cheers Derek

 

[DerekBell]

No worries Derek. Im just glad to have someone to contact re this stuff..

I have also planked the deck in Mahogany, and did notice the near white deck from some You-Tube footage of the ship, and was nearly tempted to paint it white, but then thought I spent all the time doing the planking and didnlt want to cover it all in paint. The only other major discrepancy ive come across is the lack of the rear entry to the capitans quarters. But these differences may be later modifications to the real ship with it passing to a few different owners, I cant find any detailed history on the ship.

Its a pity to hear of the current state of the cutty, but it sounds like most of it was put away in storage for the rebuild anyway. Do you know if there doing anyting with it now days, or has it been scrapped like so many of the others, there would be a point where the money value would be enough, let alone the lack of the older trades needed nowdays.

 

[Caledonia]

Hi Derek, they are still beavering away restoring the vessel, have a look at their official website below. Are you planning to add the sails to the vessel? When I did my one you got a large scale drawing of both the rigging and the sails. Cheers Derek

Cutty Sark - Visit the world famous Cutty Sark clipper ship

 

[DerekBell]

Have come across that website before, but hadent had a lot of time to look at it properly. Its good to see how there going, and looks like most of it is still original..

Yep I will be attaching sails to the ship as well, specially after seeing how good your looks with the sails attached. You still get the sail plans, and all the material you need to sew up into the sail shapes.

Something else to look forward too, but still quite a bit off yet.

Derek