How accurate are paint references on instruction sheets?

[banzai]

Hi all,very new to this hobby but have made the change from fantasy figure painting to these strange looking beasts with guns on!! My problem is that the Revell instructions for the M4A3 Sherman say the main overall colour for the body is Olive Grey matt 66 but on looking at ref' photos the paint work is an olive greeny colour .Is this the actual name for the colour used in the period these vehicles were built or is the the name misleading?? Thanks for any help sent this noobs way!!

 

[phalinmegob]

revell olive grey matt 66 does look to have quite a green tinge to it, i just looked at the dried paint on the inside of the lid.

 

[banzai]

Thanx for the reply,looks like i've got nothing to fear then.Time to crack on !!

 

[m1ks]

Paint refs will always be an 'as close as possible' match and will have the relevant manufacturers paint and codes, i.e. tamiya kit will give tamiya paint refs even if a better match may be found on the humbrol stand.

Airfix will give Humbrol refs, revell, revell etc

You'll note differences between old and new kits of the same vehicle, I recently did a bf109e, an old airfix one which gives totally different paint refs to the current airfix bf109e.

If you're happy with the 'thats close enough' principal then go with the refs on the sheet, if you want more accuracy look at Vallejos kits for specific military applications, if you want anything Luftwaffe ask Steve, (Stona) on here, no better reference around for germanic flying stuff.

 

[stona]

I'm not an armour modeller but I can tell you one thing about all U.S.Olive Drab paints. They were remarkably inconsistent! They may have matched the relevant standard at the factory but the formulae varied and the paints weathered and faded in a bewildering variety of ways. Look at a decent period colour photo of a line up of vehicles or aircraft and this is usually evident.

A brief history of olive drab:

Before the war the US Army Air Corps used an olive drab paint designated Olive Drab No9. This was actually related to Royal Flying Corps Green,a WWI colour used by the British.

In 1940 the US Army and Navy got together and introduced a new ANA standard. They decided that O.D.No9 was too light and introduced a new paint designated Dark Olive Drab 41. Just to confuse things this "new" colour had been around since 1932!

Now you'd think that was it but no,the original O.D.41 was a mixture of seven different pigments which was fine in peace time. When WWII came along it didn't need Einstein to discover that an awful lot of Olive Drab paint was going to be needed. Manufacturers set about simplifying their formulae. As a result different manufacturers used different formulae,some used as few as two pigments. The problem was the different paints weathered very differently.Pilots of the 14th Fighter Group operating Lightnings in North Africa reported that under African sun their early-model P-38s turned,rather disconcertingly,into a bright purple colour! This obviously wouldn't do.

So,in March 1943 yet another standard was set, ANA 613. This standardised Olive Drab to the Army standard which had developed,despite being officially the same,into a lighter shade than the OD 41 used by the USAAF. Now you say everyone will be using the same paint. I'm afraid not. The Army did indeed use the new standard ANA 613 (which was the same as their interpretation of OD 41 anyway) but the Air Force showed no interest in it and most aircraft manufacturers continued matching to the earlier,darker,OD 41.

The long and short of this is that there is no need to beat yourself up about an exact shade of a particular Olive Drab. There never was one!

There is a good,armour orientated article on the mysteries of Olive Drab here.

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4536

Regarding your original question on colour call outs in kit instructions,they vary a lot. Many are well researched,like the decals,and will give a manufacturers colour (or mix ratio) which will certainly be close. Some are absolute rubbish.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Bunkerbarge]

I suspect that this could even be a typo and it should say Olive Green.

 

[banzai]

OMG,what have i got myself into?? Addictive trying to find perfection tho isn,t it? My next question is....how to work out fading of the colours used.Any good weathering manuals out there that will satisfy my general ignorance? Gone the full hog and ordered a compressor and airbrush as well!!!!! Forgot to thank everyone for info...Cheers guys! @stona I see your a birmingham lad aswell ,know Rednal at all?

 

[Bunkerbarge]

OMG,what have i got myself into?? Addictive trying to find perfection tho isn,t it? My next question is....how to work out fading of the colours used.Any good weathering manuals out there that will satisfy my general ignorance? Gone the full hog and ordered a compressor and airbrush as well!!!!! Forgot to thank everyone for info...Cheers guys! @stona I see your a birmingham lad aswell ,know Rednal at all?

Have a look at the two weathering DVD's in the Scale Models Forum shop. They are very good guidance to learn some relatively straightforward techniques that can make a huge difference to your modelling.

 

[Ian M]

And don't forget that after having used a month hunting down the 100% correct colour match and finding a maker that has just the one you need, you will need to scale the colour down by lightening it to a more scale appropriate colour.

Unless you buy Humbrol paints. The Man from Humbrol says that the colours are scaled. Now that is fan-flipping-tastic. Paint that knows if it is going to be used on a 1/4 tank or a 1/72 scale one. How does that work.

Sorry I just could not resist.

If I can get a colour "in the ball park" I'm fine, I do know I have asked some very specific questions my self here about colours, but thats due to having no idea at all as to the closest to colour.

Glad we got the Olive Green sorted out. Now then, Bronze Green.......:laughing: Sorry.

Ian M

 

[Gern]

And don't forget that after having used a month hunting down the 100% correct colour match and finding a maker that has just the one you need, you will need to scale the colour down by lightening it to a more scale appropriate colour.Unless you buy Humbrol paints. The Man from Humbrol says that the colours are scaled. Now that is fan-flipping-tastic. Paint that knows if it is going to be used on a 1/4 tank or a 1/72 scale one. How does that work.

Sorry I just could not resist.

If I can get a colour "in the ball park" I'm fine, I do know I have asked some very specific questions my self here about colours, but thats due to having no idea at all as to the closest to colour.

Glad we got the Olive Green sorted out. Now then, Bronze Green.......:laughing: Sorry.

Ian M

That's a bit like those totally brilliant tourist maps. The ones with a big arrow saying "You are here". How the h**l do they know where you are!?

You could always go the way of Vallejo. They have Olive Drab in packs of 6 widely different shades so you can decide which is best!

Gern

PS There's a guy called Nick Karatzides who does some fabulous scratch builds here. He did a detailed description of scale shading in one of his builds - I think it was some sort of mobile 20mm cannon.

 

[stona]

My next question is....how to work out fading of the colours used. @stona I see your a birmingham lad aswell ,know Rednal at all?

You'll see from the tone of the posts the chaps have made that you don't need to worry about exactly matching your colours to anything in particular. It is very subjective and a bit more art than science. Gern mentioned a very impressive build in which the builder used a scale program to work out his scale effect. This is absolutely fine but I honestly believe a bit of practice and experimentation can achieve the same thing without the need for the Nurofen. Lets's say we are lightening by adding white to our colours. Very,very,very roughly most colours would need about 10% white at 1/32, 15% white at 1/48 and 30% white at 1/72. For your fading due to sun bleaching you'd need to lighten some areas a bit more. Have a little play on a bit of scrap (plastic milk containers provide good material for this) before comitting to your latest pride and joy!

I've lived in Birmingham for nearly thirty years and I'm sorry to say I don't remember dropping in on Rednal :music_whistling: I know where it is though :clap:

Cheers

Steve

 

[Caledonia]

I used to spend hours trying to find the correct colours for my aircraft models, but realised later that the perception of colour is based on the type of light falling on it. So now I find a photo of the subject that I like, and use/mix the paint to suit; not as hard as you might think. Remember its you that has to look at the model forever more so make the colours to suit you. Cheers Derek

 

[stona]

Remember its you that has to look at the model forever more so make the colours to suit you. Cheers Derek

Good advice there!

I have a historical interest in camouflage and markings but it is important to seperate this from what goes on models. I don't match my model colours to an ancient paint chip,I make them match my references and,as Derek suggests,make them look right to me.

Cheers

Steve