ICM 1/32 Gloster Gladiator Mk1

stona

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No probs Barry. I just thought I’d mention it before you put the top wing on and made correction almost impossible ;)
I'm pretty sure the scheme to which you referred was introduced sometime in the autumn of 1940, after the Sky underside. I can't be more precise because I'm b*ggered if I can find the reference to it that I know I've read in one of the books that I'm sitting by as I type :smiling3:

I did find an AMO dated 6/3/41 which specifically states that the top surfaces of the lower mainplanes of bi-planes should be regarded in the same way as the visible upper surfaces (as should the interplane struts and the top of the floats on floatplanes). That would be the formal end of the different colours on upper and lower wing top surfaces.
 
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BarryW

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I have now done two coats of Alclad Acqua Gloss and it is being left to cure, set up ready to apply decals tonight.
4AD372F2-9215-42CF-9B1E-55A59C9FA8A7.jpeg

once decals are settled and there are not many I will do another gloss coat this time MRP gloss to seal the decals Ready for washes.
 

Tim Marlow

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I think you have got that upside down Steve. It looks like the shadow scheme was an early/pre war thing that was brought in with the temperate land scheme and was then discontinued in December 1940. The scheme on this aircraft may well date from after that. The link I posted above is actually a very good read!
 

stona

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I think you have got that upside down Steve. It looks like the shadow scheme was an early/pre war thing that was brought in with the temperate land scheme and was then discontinued in December 1940. The scheme on this aircraft may well date from after that. The link I posted above is actually a very good read!
Barry's aircraft must date to sometime in this period, from late'38/early'39 to June 1940.

The black white underside was discontinued in June 1940 and replaced with the new colour 'Sky' (though it took a while to happen).

The black white underside scheme had a long gestation period, the first large trial on a batch of 50 Hurricanes was eventually authorised in January 1938. To cut a long story short, on 23 September 1938, Fighter Command wrote to the Air Ministry seeking permission to paint the black/white underside on all except 'Field Force' fighters. Before this date the undersides would have been 'silver', meaning aluminium dope.

Aircraft in service were re-painted in the following months, though the requirement was not even communicated to Supermarine until 27/1/39, meaning the first Spitfires did not come off the line in this underside scheme until some time after that date.

I have always associated the lighter coloured lower mainplane with the Sky underside, so post June/July 1940, though I'll happily be wrong :smiling3:
 

Tim Marlow

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I’ve only got access to secondary sources so I’m willing to be wrong as well :tears-of-joy:
 

stona

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I’ve only got access to secondary sources so I’m willing to be wrong as well :tears-of-joy:
I know what you mean :smiling3:

Just so we don't completely lose the plot, I think it's worth saying that Barry is making a beautiful job of this, whatever colour the lower mainplane is!
 

BarryW

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An interesting discussion...

anyway - decals on....
EE436211-53F1-419E-90F0-06180F76C664.jpegB9560266-49E6-4894-A905-20F97D382D5C.jpeg

they were not bad at all. Very thin with a tendency to curl but they are reacting the decal solution very well.

I expect to need to do a few applications of solution before I do some pin washes.
 

BarryW

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Just a quick warning post. There was a reaction between the Alclad Acqua Gloss and the matt lacquer varnish. This was after 24 hours curing time when 6 hours is suggested on the bottle.
7D43FC1B-D125-4108-ADED-8891D1560BD3.jpeg

I will get it sorted but I think that in future I will keep to just using the MRP lacquer varnish despite the reactivation issues.
 

Jim R

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Hi Barry
How very annoying. As you say you will sort it but still a problem you didn't need. Usually these reaction problems are due to being in too much of a hurry and the under coat not being fully cured but in this case it had 4 times the recommended tme so must just be something incompatible in the varnishes.
Jim
 

BarryW

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Yes Jim. On future builds there remains the problem of the lacquer varnish reactivating the paint around decals making the clear decal areas visible, so I might try a coat of enamel gloss to see
if that works better as a barrier. I won’t be able to use enamel washes over it of course, but one coat of that over the MRP with decals applied on that and a lacquer coat of gloss to seal the decals before enamel washes is the next logical experiment. I might try that on the Sea Gladiator.
 

BarryW

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Well I messed up with fitting the top wing. I said earlier that I got a bit too much rake on the wing and it was that which contributed to the problems. I managed to get 6 of the 8 struts into place, but looking wrong, but two of the inner ones would not fit at all. Definitely my fault not the kit. During the process of fighting the wing I really messed up the paintwork as well and I broke a wheel off!

The wheel alone would not be a problem, easily fixed with some brass rod but added to the complete screw up of the wing I am going to abandon this build.

Not a problem, I have treated this build as a learning curve. First lesson, biplanes are not at all easy and it’s not the rigging that is the problem, but getting the wings into place. I certainly learned what not to do!

So I am going to try to take what I learned with this Mk1 and apply that to the Sea Gladiator and move directly into that build on this thread. I will need to approach the wings very differently, I have some ideas.....

a few final pics of the Mk1
3F589C84-4331-4875-921F-C71C7568BD95.jpeg
71B547E8-4ADD-476C-98A6-466F242D9D4D.jpeg
1AD38917-B43E-4AC6-AEC2-597F672B9683.jpeg

The shots of the wing underside only give a hint at how badly I messed up

Note that I did some ‘ final fittings’ really just to check that there are no other issues lurking. There are none. So, put simply, the only problem to overcome with this kit is to get the top to bottom wing attached....

So, now over to Gladiator part 2, the Sea Gladiator with a shot of the box

09293E2D-5BFE-4CA8-A1A9-4AFD862CB056.jpeg

There are a couple of extra/changes sprues with the key differences being:

1/ Three blades prop (a two blade option also still in the box)
2/ different i.p.
2/ arrester hook parts

Plus, of course, the Sea Temperate Scheme... Dark Slate Grey/Extra Dark Sea Grey/Sky with a Dark Sea Grey/light Slate Grey lower wing.

I will make a start Monday but as I am back in my office progress will be slower....
 

stillp

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Shame about that Barry, it was looking good.
Pete
 

BarryW

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Shame about that Barry, it was looking good.
Pete
Yes, but crap happens and it was useful for the lessons learned and, as a result, I should get a decent result with the Sea Glad. Don’t be put off the kit, ICM have done a great job with it even if I messed it up.
 

Murfie

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Barry, thanks for sharing your journey on this build. It's comforting to know that other modellers have hiccups like this which I also have at times. Biplanes can be a real challenge. I remember that some 65 years ago as a small boy, I couldn't finish an Airfix RE8 that bugged me for most of my life. That would have been the hardest biplane build I had attempted. It gave me great satisfaction to finish one ten years ago (I must be a very slow learner!). I have an Albatros in the cupboard waiting for the rigging to be finished but my recent health issue prevents me from doing so at the moment.

Next time I attempt a biplane I am tempted to try out one of the biplane jigs that John sells. When you add rigging to the build, a biplane can be very challenging indeed. However, when everything goes well you learn nothing. That's what modelling is about to me.
 

Jim R

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Hi Barry
Shame but as you say you have learned lessons.
It's comforting to know that other modellers have hiccups like this
Yup - seeing modelllers of your skills beaten gives hope to us lesser mortals :tongue-out3:
Onwards and upwards. Looking forward to Sea Gladiator.
Jim
 

BarryW

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As so much on the Sea Glad is the same as for the mk1, I am progressing the build as quickly as I can without repeating what I already posted. I will post updates and photos at key stages.
 

adt70hk

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Hi Barry

Really sorry to hear of the problems you had. That was looking like it was going to turn into something very special as always with your builds.

Hope the next one to turns out better.

ATB

Andrew
 

Gern

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Such a pity - that was moving along very nicely indeed. Onwards and upwards though - at least you know the issues now so the next one should be easier.
 

BarryW

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The SeGlad is coming on.

Internals well on the way
CD5F22E9-2FEE-405B-AB7E-0A1564C81B22.jpeg
E48FE68E-6599-4421-9095-612C7302FF1C.jpeg
2BB56E05-E8A0-41A0-90C2-E668F5778980.jpeg
E3550052-9F73-44C2-AC33-7686660C2981.jpeg

Below is the underside of the top wing. I decided to cement the outer pylons into place as there are good locations. I will leave to inner ones until the wings are in place. I decided this way around as I think they fit the locations that little but better enabling a more accurate positioning. My checks suggest that this will work fingers crossed 0A7827F0-CAF8-4EBB-9D5C-39321A863B0A.jpeg
 
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