Prop Shaft question

[Grief]

Hi Folks.

I'm Building a Model of the coaster Ben Ain.

I have fitted the Rudder gear and I am ready to fit my Shiny new bronze

bearing prop shaft. After that I can check out my shiny new Brass Prop.

Now heres the silly question that you all know the answer to

The prop shaft needs to lie flat. So what stop the water flooding in through the shaft past the bearing once it is fixed in place?

The shaft comes with a nut and washer at both ends. Is that to lock to the prop and the coupling?

Sorry if these are basic Questions but I'm new to this bit.

Any help would be appreciated. I think I have most of the other drive and R.C

bits worked out. I will feel a lbigger lemon if I fit the prop shaft and something basic.

Regards

Chris

 

[jankers]

Hi Grief

The shaft comes with a nut and washer at both ends. Is that to lock to the prop and the coupling?

correct

So what stop the water flooding in through the shaft past the bearing once it is fixed in place?

Use grease/petroleum jelly(vaseline) or light oil such as "Three in One" depending upon your fancy.

 

[Grief]

Thanks jankers.

Chris

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Chris,

I would strongly recommend that you look into an alternative stern tube arrangement using proper ball bearings rather than plain bushes. One of the main reasons for this is that the end of the tube is effectively sealed and greatly reduces the likelyhood of any leakage into the hull. Ball bearings, if properly looked after, will also last considerably longer.

I got mine from the Prop Shop and when the boat is down to its marks and running there is no leakage whatsoever. I filled my tube with waterproof grease.

From what I remember the price was very reasonable as well.

Look into it at least, I fitted the supplied tube before John Hemmens pointed out the disadvantages so I had to dig out the original to fit the new one. You are going to put hundreds of hours into this project so you don't want to end up with something as demoralising as a leaking stern tube when you finish it.

All the best

Richard

 

[IainM]

True about ball race shafts being 'the best' but I have been running a bronze bush shaft (horizontal) in a tug for 27 years with no significant leakage or bush replacement.

I fitted an 'oiler tube' - soldered to the outer prop tube. Once a month I give it a squeeze of water proof vehicle axle grease. Try to ensure that you have no mis-alignment between motor and prop shaft. Any mis-alignment will cause wear on the inner bush no matter how good the coupling is. I set up prop shaft and motor in the boat with a rigid connection. When all adhesives etc. have set, replace the rigid connector with the flex. coupling.

If you get any 'noise', this means you will get wear. Silent (or nearly so) is good!! You'll also get a better battery life!

Best of luck,

Iain

 

[Bunkerbarge]

The Ben Ain kit comes supplied with 'plastic' bushes in the stern tube.

Whereas there are merits of plain bronze bushes care must be taken to ensure that they are bronze and not brass but plastic did not give me sufficient confidence that they would last the life of the boat.

You must also ensure that you have an oiler tube fitted no matter what bearings you are using. Once again the Ben Ain stern tube is not fitted with an oiler so you have to do work on it anyway.

 

[IainM]

If you have not yet fitted your prop shaft/tube, possibly you could consider a slightly different approach that would make life easier if you ever had to replace either shaft or bushes.

The prop tube is fitted with a short outer sleeve just where it passes through the hull. The outer sleeve is epoxied to the hull, and the prop tube is sealed in place using silicon. I've used this method on a couple of boats and a couple of guys in our club would not use any other method.

I attach a jpeg that shows this diagramatically.

Hope all this helps! Sometimes the simple question results in an avalanche of information!!

Nere mind - just remember, there is no such thing as a silly question - there are only silly answers

Iain

View attachment 13206

 

[IainM]

Oops ....... trust me to provide a classic example of a silly answer!!

Iain

 

[Grief]

Thanks for the great replies.

Where I'm at is.

Bought the brass prop and a prop shaft (with bronze bearings) from the prop shop. The guy was very helpful. I asked him about the shafts and he suggested for a lower revving prop the Bronze bearings should last many years. I think I will add an oiler point

Of the Prop shop. Thanks for the contact Richard. I decribed the motor ( A robbe navy geared 600/24 compact geared at 3.3:1.

I described the prop at 70mm diameter four blades etc.

The shaft and prop arrived next day. The shaft was £7.00 so if its not suitable I haven't fitted it yet. The prop is excellent and came in just under £20.00

I knew the shaft had to be oiled or greased but I wasn't sure if I was missing something else with respect to keeping out the water. I looked long and hard at the rudder shaft for the same reason.

How common is leaking through the prop shaft or is it just a case of regular pre sailing squirt.

I agree the plastic bearing that came with the kit shaft looks a little soft for such a well loaded prop from an engineers point of view.

Going off at a tangent I have ordered a cooling coil to go with the motor. I think if I set this up so the prop pushes water through the tube I can run it back out of the port or starboard side to simulate the cooling water outlet on the old steam versions. It will also cool the motor for me. How does this sound guys?

Thanks In advance

Chris

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Chris,

If you have purchased a bronze bushed stern tube it should, as Ian suggests, give you many years of reliable service provided that you fit an oiler tube and give it a squeeze of waterproof grease every now and then. My real concern is the plastic bushes as supplied.

A slow revving set up like yours should not give the bushes too much to worry about and keeping it topped up with grease should ensure that you never have any ingress of water. As for the rudder, I have put a squirt of waterproof grease in the rudder stock and I don't forsee the need to do much more with it again. It is above the water level anyway so it is only lubricating the shaft and preventing water from splashing up the bush.

As for your cooling coil, I'd be suprised if you are loading the motor enough to warrant cooling but it won't do any harm. I'm not sure though how you could have it supplied by the prop pressure side without it looking unsightly around the back end somewhere. Have you thought about a small pump? I have a small neat 12v one from a car windscreen washing system on the ballast system in my u-boat which would be ideal for your use and then the suction and discharge pipes could be neatly positioned. If you are using an electric motor for propulsion you should have loads of room for other bits and bobs such as lighting, smoke generator, sound system etc...etc..etc..!!

All the best

Richard

 

[Grief]

Hi Richard.

Good idea about the pump.

I have a multiplex RC. It has four channels and will upgrade to seven.

The reciever that came with it has six channels so as you say I can add lights, smoke etc.

For a whistle I am thinking about using a small steam whistle inside the funnel and running it off a small compressed air or CO2 bottle. I think with a smoke generator as well I can create a little realism. As you say the boat needs plenty of ballast and has plenty of space.

Tonight I have been playing around with the fore deck and the rear quarter deck, getting the heights correct. I hope to make some good progress this weekend If the motor comes tommorow.

Cheers

Chris

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Chris,

I have purchased a sound system by a company called JJC electronics. It is a recording of a three cylinder compound steam engine which varies in speed with the throttle signal.

Linked into this is a slave unit for an engine room telegraph bell that rings when you start in either ahead or astern and and another slave unit operates a steam whistle via a spare channel on my TX.

If you are interested I can give you a contact. As for smoke I have just fitted a smoke generator from Hunter systems to my customs cutter which is a good bit bigger than the Robbe unit and lasts a lot longer. The trouble is it needs a 12v supply.

I'll include a picture to give you the idea.

The trouble is that you can generate ideas faster than you can fit or afford them!!

All the best

Richard

View attachment 13207

 

[Grief]

Hi Richard.

Your right about cost. Its easy to get carried away.

The smoke generator looks excellent. If you can give me the contacts for the sound I would like to follow it up. I thought about the whistle because I assumed a sound system would be quite expensive.

Sadly my motor didn't turn up today. I think I will fit the prop shaft anyway as it can only go in one place

Regards

Chris

 

[Nigel.D]

Hey Guys

reading this thread has been fascinating:respect1: whilst i have no real desire to run a radio control boat. im really impressed with the engineering and detail you guys put in so im now looking for a large scale s boat / e boat to build just for static display. All credit to you for the enthusiasm you have generated and i know i can call on your help when im stuck lol

 

[Grief]

He Heh the fever spreads

Best of luck Nigel.

Chris

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Chris,

Have a look at:

http://www.jjc-electronics.com/index.html

He doesn't have any prices shown yet but be prepared, they are not cheap. They are however very effective and you can spread the cost over the duration of the model build. I think a master unit is in the region of £50.00 and a slave unit around £20.00-£30.00.

Nigel,

Thanks for the comments. I actually made plastic kits on and off for many years, not to anything like your standard, and I got a lot out of it but I recently fancied trying radio control. I had a go at cars but got fed up with too many people taking it far too seriously, then planes but the local club were not the friendliest bunch so my first solo ended up burying itself so it was also my last, then finally boats. I should have tried them first as I am an engineer in the Merchant Navy so it was an obvious choice.

The big advantage is that RC opens up a whole new dimension to modelling in so far as it is a much more social activity than plastic. I joined a club and we meet every Sunday morning and Wednesday afternoon, if you are available, and we stand around the pond putting the world to rights and discussing our models etc..etc.. Great company and a very relaxing way to spend a bit of time.

I am also discovering how much fun you can have with a radio controlled model. Not only the making of it but the bringing it to life gives you a whole new set of things to think about. The technology available is mind blowing nowadays and limited by only your imagination and your pocket and I have to admit to enjoying 'playing' with the technology as much as I do making the model. You can't beat the look on the wifes face when you plug the steam reciprocating engine sound with telegraph bells and steam whistle into the stereo and operate it with the transmitter from a different room.

If you ever get a chance to go to a model engineering show go along. You will be really amazed at what goes on nowadays with radio control and model engineering.

 

[Grief]

Thanks again Richard.

I only live down the road from jjc So I might give them a call.

Lucky for me I am less than 10 minutes drive from the warwickshire exhibition centre where they hold the model engineers show. (I think there may be one on this weekend)

In November they have the Model Boat show there. Which I am definatly going to.

As for the modeling I like building the plastic plane kits. Again not to your standard Nigel.

I used to watch the Model RC boats at Bushy Park in Teddington on a Sunday morning. I have wanted to build one since. I started to plank a boat hull a good few years back but never finished it. This time I plan to see it through.

Chris

 

[Nigel.D]

ok guys i admit it

Ok you two il admit this . I have got a tamiya 1/16 king tiger that im making its a radio control kit. though im finding it strange to work out what channel does what??? the buildings fine its the other bits (Black arts as far as im concerned) that causes me grief (sic) Any way its all your fault I swayed from the path of the static!!! you may get the " Domestic Authorities" on here lambasting you for leading me astray :chubbyche

 

[Grief]

Dorry Worry Nigel I'm a novice too. Richard has helped me no end so far.

The domestic police are watching closely.

Wait until the model boat show on the fosse near L/spa. Where does she hide the cheque book?

Cheers

Chris

 

[madaboutlotus]

Another silly prop shaft / prop question?

Hi all,

Is, or is not, a M5 threaded prop different to a 2BA?

Although both threads are (as close as can be) 5mm across, I believe the 2BA thread is closer cut and therefore stronger. Therefore, a 2BA prop whouldn't fit a M5 shaft, or am I wrong?

The reason for my confusion is that some adverts seem to suggest they are the same!

Bill