SimonT - Pig Models 1:1 88mm Pzgr.39 (APCBC) L/56

SimonT

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Morning all - couldn't resist starting this one yesterday evening

Pig Models 1:1 88mm Pzgr.39 (APCBC) L/56 bought from the Mig Ammo web shop direct

No box shot as it arrived in a
brown square tube plastered in Ammo branded tape

The contents:

88mm-001_2020-3-8.jpg
base plate in ABS and the percussion cap also in ABS

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88mm-011_2020-3-8.jpg
the shell and cartridge case in some kind of vinyl

88mm-012_2020-3-8.jpg
a set of cardboard stencil masks

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and the highly informative instruction sheet complete spelling mistakes and a really poor colour chart in shades of grey

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the base plate and percussion cap both suffer from slight sinkage

88mm-010_2020-3-8.jpg
I suspect this mark should also have a swastika but has been censored

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started sanding using a glass file (another great modelling item from the lasses makeup arsenal) to keep things flat - you can see the sinkage much easier now

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the shell has some rather deep mould line recesses so they got filled with nitro 1k stopper filler intended for car repairs

the nitro cellulose base is quite aggressive stuff so I am hoping it will bite into the plastic - it should also sand to a good finish

the whole thing is very similar to prepping a car panel

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a couple of years ago on a dark wet night I caught the front of my car on the garden wall and did this

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after a lot of prep work I got it to look as good as new again

I am hoping that if I follow the same process I may get a good finish on the ammo although painting it will be a challenge

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the vinyl casing is not the easiest to sand

I have been using a mix of gentle scraping with sharp blade edge initially followed by sanding with a Wilkos foam emery board and polishing with a green Scotch pad

it is slow going and you have to remember to sand with the curve shape to avoid creating flat spots

88mm-005_2020-3-8.jpg
eventually the line does start to disappear

it will be a slow process - sand, fill, sand, polish, repeat until happy - but the prep work will be all important to get a good finish with it being such a large expanse of brass as the slightest imperfection will show up

I have also decided that this needs to be weighted

To that end I have purchased a large bag of builders sharp sand with which to fill the innards

I have some ideas for a few tweaks to help keep the sand inside

Need to decide on the weight of the shell and casing - so far various sites have thrown up different values

I have a book on ammo somewhere - need to look that out
 

SteveH

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Looks like quite a distraction Si,

Don't drop it on your foot once it weighted!

I guess you are spoiled for choice with the brass finish and all the paints out there.

I guess proportionately it will be least parts longest build with all the sanding, polishing before painting?

Enjoy the build

Regards

Steve H
 

adt70hk

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Interesting Si. Never seen one of the before looking forward to how it turns out.

ATB

Andrew
 

Jim R

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Morning Simon
Read the title too quickly and too soon after waking up - thought you had a full size 88mm gun for a moment :rolling:
Never seen one of these before. Just make sure you have plenty of 'instent' glue! Good idea to put weight inside.
Jim
 

Peter Day

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Wow, that's unusual. Looks like a whopper. Will watch with much interest.
 

SimonT

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Steve - too right since it will be around 10kg! I plan to spray it with the relevant colours but then use AK true metal wax polish over the top. Only four parts but yes probably the longest prep time ever

Andrew - so am I

Jim - hmm, a scratch built 88mm gun to go with it. That would be fun. With the availability of online translators you would think that these days they might at least get the spelling correct

Peter - just short of a metre I think when assembled, quite a size anyway
 

Jakko

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Need to decide on the weight of the shell and casing - so far various sites have thrown up different values
This is the same ammunition as for the 8,8 cm FlaK 18/36/37, isn’t it? Then US Army TM E9-369A: German 88-mm Antiaircraft Gun of 29 June 1943 says the APCBC round weighs 32.74 pounds, which Spotlight tells me is 14.85 kg. (I quote this source specifically because I would suspect they’ll have it either from German manuals or actually weighed captured rounds to get that data.)
 

Steven000

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... I suspect this mark should also have a swastika but has been censored ...
Nice project Simon!
I was able to buy an empty 88 shell a while ago, it indeed has the swastika in the circle :
1583670804476_st05.jpg
Mine was repainted in grey and fired a second time by the Finnish postwar army. (2 dots mark) I will restore it in the future so it's nice to see those spray-stencils and shell are available etc.

Will follow your shell! :thumb2:
Cheers, Steven
 

SimonT

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Jakko - thanks. Not saying it’s wrong but sounds a bit heavy. Everything else I have seen points to nearer 10kg. You would think they would have it right in a TM though :thinking:

Steven - excellent. Thanks for that. Good to see a genuine one in detail.
Is yours brass or steel? The Haynes manual states that 6347 stamped in the base means brass but I can’t see that on yours. Yours also has a load of concentric circles in the base cap


So much for the car filler - didn’t grip at all. In fact it had peeled itself off over night and just flaked off in large lumps.

I have now used some of the new formula Squadron grey - very goopy stuff, and it shrinks, and boy does it whiff
 

Steven000

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Is yours brass or steel? The Haynes manual states that 6347 stamped in the base means brass but I can’t see that on yours. Yours also has a load of concentric circles in the base cap
Mine is a steel one Simon, but these were coated in a thin brass coat as far as i know...
Cheers, Steven
 

Pete Low

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Hi Simon you probably got this information already.
  • Weight, complete with fuze: 6.8 kg (15 lb)
  • Explosive filler: 18 g (0.63 oz) of RDX and wax (90/10)
  • Number of driving bands: 1
  • Material of driving band: sintered iron
  • Shell diameter at driving band: 77.4 mm (3.05 in)
  • Shell body diameter: 74.5 mm (2.93 in)
  • Fuze: Bd.Z. 5103
    • Type: base fuze
    • Weight with tracer unit: 107 g (3.8 oz)
    • Tracer burning time: 2 seconds
Pete
 

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Mine is a steel one Simon, but these were coated in a thin brass coat as far as i know...
Cheers, Steven
Looking at the stamping on the base of your shell, I can see “aue” - one of my hirework customers is Auerhammer, in Aue, Saxony. They specialise in bimetals, where one type of metal is mechanically-bonded to another. This includes ammunition, where a thin layer of brass is bonded to mild steel. The brass is essentially self-lubricating, which makes the cartridges easier to manipulate in the weapon’s chamber. The steel is cheaper than brass, and can be deep-drawn to make the cartridges.
I suspect that this shell was made by my customer- there has been a metalworks in Aue for over 500 years, and the town was a strategic objective for the Red Army at the end of the war.
 

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Looking at the stamping on the base of your shell, I can see “aue” - one of my hirework customers is Auerhammer, in Aue, Saxony.
That’s not what aue indicates :smiling3: German wartime equipment was marked with a letter code (one or two letters in October 1940, three from November) that indicates the producer, but these were codes, not abbreviations. The meaning of many is known, but some are not. aue is Metall u. Eisen GmbH, Nürnberg, according to this site.
 

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Jakko - thanks. Not saying it’s wrong but sounds a bit heavy. Everything else I have seen points to nearer 10kg. You would think they would have it right in a TM though :thinking:
Wikipedia’s article has the projectile weight as 10.20 kg for the PzGr. 39 but doesn’t list complete round weight. Spielberger’s Der Panzerkampfwagen Tiger und seine Abarten lists the PzGr. 39 projectile (Geschoß, it says on the relevant table) for the KwK 43 L/71 as weighing 10.16 kg, and AFAIK the projectiles of these 8,8 cm guns were virtually identical even if the cases weren’t.

It looks to me like 14.85 kg is fairly accurate, but that many sources confuse projectile weight with round weight.
 

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A large & interesting build, I didn't even know you could get this kind of thing Simon. The 'rings' on the real shell base look like it's been turned on a lathe, which given there is a threaded hole for the percussion cap is probably what it is.
 

SimonT

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It’s the first one Pig Models have done Graeme

The circles don’t seem to appear on the brass cases
 

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Mr. T, a close look on the bottom of my brass casing indicates the rings you are talking about. I suspect machine turning to final dimension after the case was formed. Hope this helps. Rick H.P1011176.JPGP1011177.JPG
 

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I'm still trying to figure out how you are going to etch that swastika into the center of the wreath. Not to mention the WaA number that goes under it. I checked some of my ordnance and you definitely have an inspectors WaA eagle and not a Proof mark. I'm looking forward to seeing how the finish on the shell casing comes out. Rick H.
 
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