1/7 Scale HMS Victorious R38

[jankers]

A possible solution to the lifts would be to use the old style "scissor jacks" (car type).

I do not know if there go the the height required ( i don't have a car), but they should be stable and would certainly take the load.

J.

 

[Task Force 57]

:bravo:When you start "scale" modling with a 106ft carrier I think your main problem will be time and over attention to detail. this sounds like a 10year project to me at the very least!!!!!

However, this aside i can only applaud your intent and advice you to spend some time at the navel archive, imperial war museam and the patent office. the Illustrious class carriers did undergo a wide range of in-service upgrades during the war years, between 41 and 45 Victorious had four major refits. Id start with a cool little paperback book called "Victorious the world over" written by a sailor who stayed with her from commisioning to his demob in 46, he gives the dates for all the war refits and the yards she was kitted out in...and you can choose the exact period/fit you think wil be best suited and search for the appr documents. I'd also suggest getting hold of "Aircraft carriers of WWII" by conway chatham publ as well as the now long out of print "profile Morski" and "Warships in profile" editions on illustrious class carriers. the last book id look at is called "Task Force57" which documnets the pacific fleet from creation to VJ day... it has some VERY good pic's of the Vic and her half sisters of the indomidable type.

As for Catapults... id suggest that a scale version of a steam catapult might be a bit awkward, perhaps a co2 cannister on a microswitch might be less potentialy hazardous?

If you get very stuck let me know... I have about 100 good pics of these carriers as im a HUGE pacific fleet buff.

regards TF57 (aka Russ)

ps. For a clean and less cluttered model i would go for a 1941 (bismark era) Victorious... Less triple A mountings and a much simpler deck layout and bridge. The Hazagawa waterline Vic kit is great for upperworks detail whilst the old airfix kit (bless its heart) will give you a clean and uncluttered hull pattern. As for the Actual builders plans..if you have trouble (and im betting you will) with the records office id try the Victorious Vets association... you be amazed what some of the old buggers have tucked away or know how to get copies of...

 

[duncan]

...the completion date is still April 1st ?

 

[DavieTait]

I was wondering that Duncan , seems a bit strange for anyone to want to built a 106ft "model" just so they can fly r/c aircraft off/on it.

I know there are a few very large manned "models" ( one of the Graff Spee ) in the USA but there's absolutely nothing on this scale.

I wouldn't even contemplate the costs of building a 1/7th scale model of my families old 87ft trawler !!!

To get a 106ft "model" to the required safety levels would require commercial building methods in steel or grp , powered by 2 large marine diesels ( 106ft even lightly built will be over 100t ) of over 400hp just to get anywhere close to 8 knots any faster than say 10knots would need a pair of 650hp engines.

If you want to estimate the cost in fuel well 2 400hp engines at 100% power would be burning 70ltr/15.5 uk gallon per hour at a minimum and a pair of 650hp engines 114ltr/25.2 uk gallon per hour

I'll stick to 1/24th and 1/32nd models thanks :noidea:

 

[alan2525]

I'm always suprised by how much larger a model becomes everytime you scale it up by a factor - with the volume being cubed...

...most things would be pretty large at 1/7th scale! Let alone an Aircraft Carrier - I can't really imagine the size of the thing but it sounds like a worrying concept to me.

I'm sticking to 1:35th for now too...

I still need to make some form of glass cabinet to store the stuff I have!

 

[Albion]

If you sit down and think of it objectively, there are more reasons than I could ever possibly write of why a person SHOULDN'T build a 106 ft scale model of Victorious. Just to get an idea of how worried I am, about once a day I take a little army figure and place it next to a small model carrier, to get an idea of the scale, and every time I walk right out of the room and do something else for a while. But sooner or later I go back in and start working out the details again. Personally, I would love to see a 1/7 scale model of this ship be built. I know very well the costs involved, I know it will be expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and expensive to operate. I also know that it will be worth it.

Construction for reasons of cost and simplicity will be a composite of double diagonal planking over laminated wood keel and steel frames.

At 1/7 scale, the model of HMS Victorious will displace 85 tons, be 106 ft long overall, have a beam of 13 ft 7 inches at the waterline and have a draft of 4 ft. Propulsion will be in the form of three diesels producing approximately 700hp which will be sufficient for the ship to reach 20 knots. Much of the speed of a displacement hull is a direct result of its waterline length, and less a result of its shape. Luckily, this particular model has a very lean underwater profile, greatly increasing its efficiency under power.

I am very much aware of the extreme size with which I am working, and that I could probably reduce the scale to 1/12 and still fly rc aircraft from it. To do so however, would, in my view limit the models functionality. It would be difficult to operate the aircraft from the ship itself, not to mention eliminating outright any on board accommodations. These factors aside, a couple of new technologies are emerging for rc aircraft that would only be practical in the larger scale.

Launching will be on or about April 1 next year, the completion date is a couple years after that.

 

[duncan]

Go to http://perso.orange.fr/bernard.joannes/bateau.htm The builders of the original gave this chap some assistance, perhaps Vickers` successors BAE might help ? There are many pages on this site, not sure if English version is as detailed as the French. Many pictures so it isn't too hard to follow. Flying models from the carrier is easier than from elsewhere , just get your head down at last second in case it is a "bolter". Swordfish would be best or foamies if Corsairs etc. What new technologies ? Guidance systems from RPV/UMA, spot landing assist? The rebuild/conversion of my Invincible isn't relevant here, it is only(!) 31ft long and a botch-up from what was a stage-prop. Its sole purpose was to fly R/C planes on and off, much smaller profile foamies. At 100ft I think the link above is more appropriate. Think real boat and you get the idea. Model aircraft at the correct scale are readily available,some even RTF, including Zeros for an attacking force. Could be a nice scenario with smoke and bombing, gunfire etc.

 

[alan2525]

I still think it should be 1/6th scale so you can use GI Joe / Action Man figures on deck! Also there's a whole range of Authentic Uniforms etc. Plus it'll make for a lot more useable room for the R/C Aircraft pilots to operate from.

Whats another 20 feet or so in length on a 106 ft long boat?

1/7 sounds like a compromise to me!

:music_too

 

[duncan]

Albion; neu@carrierbuilders.net might be interested in your plans. www.carrierbuilders.net

 

[Albion]

Thanks for the link duncan, that is an incredible model. As for recovering aircraft with my head out the elevator well, I'm certain that I would be the fellow shown on the evening news being carried off in a stretcher with a model plane sticking out of his forehead.

The technologies I referred to are onboard real time cameras, sensors, and long range transmitters (i.e being able to send the plane off over the horizon), plus a few other neat concepts. All these options would be better suited for larger scale planes. Besides, I will need to navalize the aircraft by adding internal flotation, waterproofing the electronics, and strengthening the fuselage, these tasks would be easier with a larger scale plane.

As I said earlier, I intend to build a mock up of the island first, this will help me determine if that structure at 1/7th scale will be large enough to house command and control functions, if not then I have two options, either increase the scale to 1/6 ( and somehow find the space) or chose a different carrier class ( a rather difficult option since I am very much attached to HMS Victorious in particular).

Staging air and naval battles at this scale would be impressive. If only someone out there wanted to build a 1/7 scale HIJMS Ryujo or Zuiho the possibilities would be endless.

 

[MartinH-K]

I think you are impressively nuts! I mean that in the nicest possible way. I have to say that if I had the room, the skills and the money... I'd do EXACTLY the same thing but with my battleship. Go for it and good luck.

 

[duncan]

Albion;I`m sure Homeland Defense or CIA or other men in dark suits will be calling on you some of these days. There used to be a big model airshow in U.S. that had a battle scene with a large IJN carrier (Ikagi ?) being bombed etc. 15ft bombers etc. Very politically incorrect these days. That carrier was wheeled in a shallow strip of water, or just behind the water. Suppose today it would be OK to chase Hair-hahbs in armed inflatables (British made probably) Oh Oh ..that`s me on the list too. Another website of interest is http://groups.msn.com/MannedModelShips.

 

[Task Force 57]

I have to agree with you Duncan mate... a baby carrier might worry the three letter spooks stateside somewhat!

Been worrying about stability with you Vic mate.... with a thought to safety in mind as well, your carrier will be extreamly top heavy and prone to rolling with You in it. Perhaps a drop keel might be a plan. 15-20 degree roll en pitch is fine on a 35, 000 ton carrier with suffiecient freeboard and a lot of but might be a bit scary on a 110 feet with the Freeboard of a Harbour launch and engines rated to 20 knots? (ok... you will be steaming at more like 3knots to keep in scale speed, but even a moderate swell on a lake will be alarming).

I will be stateside in a couple of months... Id love to assist with fitting out if your within commuting distance of VA!

 

[Albion]

Well, I don't know if the feds will care or not (its an allied carrier). Besides, at this scale she will not have much, if any, combat or even terrorist potential. Then again if I keep increasing the scale ( I originally felt that 1/9 or 1/8 would be enough) they might draft it into the navy and send it to Iraq to support Operation Iraqi Freedom XXI. As for bombing a model IJN carrier.... on Pearl Harbor day you can see Japanese flags flying from a few houses in the area, so its hard to tell.

Stability worries me too. The original ship was steel, heavily armored and compartmentalized with a good bit of its weight above the waterline. The model won't have most of these issues, while internal ballast and stabilizers should be able to address those that remain. I think at this scale the model will be big enough to handle a few people on deck with minimal roll.

Volunteers for this project are always welcome.

 

[duncan]

I know you are wrong on whether certain parties would be interested in any vehicle that would have "potential". Out-of-visual range flying machines of all types are under very close scrutiny in the U.S. The FAA are upsetting a lot of innocent civilian aerial photographers that use various flying platforms, RPVs,UAVs, r/c helicopters and even blimps. The military use them so they know what can be done. However we mustn`t get paranoid over this but make friends with Coast Guards and Harbour Masters , Lifeboat crews and every official nautical organisation than can vouch that you are just an everyday normal kinda nutter and no risk to anyone . There was a 500 metre exclusion zone around a visiting U.S.N. destroyer on a goodwill visit to an event I was at. The armed picket boat shadowed me as I went round it for a look. There was a lot of chatter on the radio between the destroyer and patrol boat. Speaking to some crew members later that night in the pub they told me that I`d been picked up on radar and identified as a "two man canoe type craft" . The guys with binoculars were telling them below that it was an aircraft carrier , this led to bets of course. When they spotted me in the pub that night I got free beer from the "eyeball" crew. Radar picked me up at 3 mile range, not bad for a wooden canoe. You`ll have a load of laughs when you get her afloat. Just one question , what is your affinity with that particular ship ? Spook 57 ! Langley Va.? Looks like your cover is blown ! He He !

 

[Albion]

You are probably right about the ship causing some government interest, though I am still having a hard time imagening that it would. Theres not much activity on the Patuxent river, where I live. There is a Naval Air Station about eight miles downriver, no surface activity, just aircraft. I have only ever seen the regular Coast Guard here once, although the CG Auxiliary is quite active.

As for my interest in this partcular ship, I grew up surrounded by images and books related to the USN and RN. I had a couple uncles with Naval Libraries that together would amount to several hundred books, among these collections were a couple on HMS Victorious, there was also a scale model. Its a bit odd, but the ship just stuck with me over the years. I am not a nut about her, don't have any memorabilia or a stack of crew photos and ship's rosters. It was just a good ship, and when I decided to investigate the possibility of building a large scale model of a carrier, it was my natural choice.

 

[Task Force 57]

Hrrrrrrrm, "Spook 57" has a ring to it... might have to invest in a cloak and dagger and retire to the shadows of The Brogue Tavern for clandestine boozing. Shame there isnt a good bar within 10 miles of langley...with the possible exception of irelands Own in Alexandria (but My feet tend to smoke when i walk across the floor there, Im alergic to the residue of past overt Provisionals even if its the only source of good Bitter in the Nova area).

:knight::poster_of

 

[Albion]

As you might have guessed, you gents are going over my head right now. Duncan has me a little worried though I will have to admit. I could not be described as a radical man by any stretch of the imagination. Yet I would have equal difficulty recalling the last time I conformed to a norm of any kind, I believe the descriptive word here is eccentric. Therefore I am doubtful if I would be able to instill confidence in the local authorities, if ever required to do so.

 

[Task Force 57]

Rofl! Methinks the late hour has (in conjuntion with a few ales) led to a degree of off topic sillyness....

Worry not old chap, We are all non conformists and somewhat weird... after all, we build models and tend to favour real ale and music played by musicians as opposed to computers.

I live about an hours drive from CIA headquarters when im stateside, The Pun was Duncans which i played upto (with a degree of flair and panache as to be expected).

Yours sincerly

Spook 57...oops, sorry make that TASKFORCE 57.

ps... dont worry about Duncan, I find those blue faced bottom flashing types over on the wrong side of the wall can be easily placated with a bottle of scotch and a Rangers or celtic season ticket (you gotta keep the restless savages distracted, thats the key! else its Rod stewart 24 hours a day and a strange scent of haggis wafting across the boards :P )

 

[Albion]

OK Russ, my mind went a different direction at first, but I think I have finally caught up now (not without a good deal of help though).

So, if anybody can think up a good opening line for me when I go tell the Coast Guard why I have a operational carrier (albeit a tiny one), sing out.