A wash over enamel paint

[Deisenaut]

I am trawling the internet and getting more confused - if I paint a model completely with enamel paints, what options do I have for panel lines and weathering? I've read that I cant do an enamel wash over enamel, so is oil paint / turps and solution, or will Pledge Klear mean that I can use an enamel wash? Any advise appreciated - Mike

 

[dubster72]

There's a lot of rubbish said about the use of different paints Mike @so I'm not surprised at your confusion.

All paint, that has properly cured can have any other paint applied as a wash/filter. So enamel on enamel or acrylic on acrylic is fine, as is crossing the two types over.

Oil's are used for washes because they have a translucent quality that allows the use of different, complimentary washes.

And Klear just provides a glossy coat to help the wash run into the cracks & crevices, and not stick to flat surfaces.

Hope this helps Patrick

 

[stona]

Well yes and no.

First the 'no'.If you apply an oil wash/filter or enamel based wash over a model painted in enamel paints the solvent on which the wash/filter is dissolved will also dissolve your lovingly applied paint. You need to protect that paint from the solvent with something and an acrylic varnish,like Klear/Future,will do the job. I sometimes use a dot filter using oil paints and the prospect of scrubbing oils over an enamel base with a brush moistened with solvent doesn't appeal at all!

Now the 'yes'. I have sprayed enamel over acrylic and vice-versa and it has worked fine. Make sure,as Patrick correctly says,that the first paint is completely dry AND cured.

All paints are different so an experiment is always in order if you have any doubts.

Cheers

Steve

 

[dubster72]

I've never had that problem Steve, but that might be because I leave a considerable amount of time between the final coat before going on to start the weathering process.

Personally, I think most of the horror stories come from people applying oil or enamel washes over an acrylic basecoat when the paint hasn't cured. Patience is the watchword!

Patrick

 

[Deisenaut]

thanks guys - having a nightmare getting Klear or Futurr here in Waterford, Ireland so it may get a very long drying time. Happy Christmas and happy holiday building!

 

[stona]

Personally, I think most of the horror stories come from people applying oil or enamel washes over an acrylic basecoat when the paint hasn't cured. Patience is the watchword!

Patrick

I couldn't agree more Patrick. You should be fine applying an oil wash over a well cured acrylic paint. Many people confuse drying and curing. Acrylic paints dry very quickly but should be left a couple of days to cure.

I'd be more circumspect about applying a wash over a paint finish that uses the same solvent. I've applied an oil based pin wash to panel lines over unprotected enamel paint (years ago!),very carefully,and got away with it though it's not a technique I use these days. I wouldn't attempt a filter. By definition you have to work the oil paints used in filtering over the paint surface with a solvent moistened brush and I'm sure (since that solvent will also dissolve an enamel paint) you would b*gger up the enamel paint work. It shouldn't be a problem with an acrylic base coat.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Deisenaut]

thanks stona, its actually over enamel. Plan is no base coat, let enamel dry after painting, then a wash that wont interfere (including exhaust fumes), then klear coat, followed by panel lines and silver dotting round engines behind propellors and edges of some windows. Finally another layer of clear. On the other hand i'm thinking it might be ambitous for my first build!

 

[dubster72]

If I was you, IMHO I'd do the base coat, then the chipping (silver bits where the paint has come off ),then the klear with the wash for the panel lines after that. The last thing would be the exhaust marks as on a real aircraft, these would be laid down last of all.

Although I'm not an aircraft builder, the principles of what comes where & when remain the same, I think.

Patrick

 

[Deisenaut]

thanks Patrick - all advise is good - by base coat i meant the primer like the grey halfords acrylic spray - do i need this?, sorry if my terminology is messed up. Sound advice!

 

[dubster72]

I always prime my models before painting, as it makes the actual paint go on better, plus when the models primed, any imperfections can be easily seen & corrected.

Once I had a large thumbprint that I only saw after applying primer!

A good site to have a look at for aircraft modelling is swannysmodels.com , there's a lot of interesting stuff on there.

 

[stona]

thanks stona, its actually over enamel. Plan is no base coat, let enamel dry after painting, then a wash that wont interfere (including exhaust fumes), then klear coat, followed by panel lines and silver dotting round engines behind propellors and edges of some windows. Finally another layer of clear. On the other hand i'm thinking it might be ambitous for my first build!

Over enamel you can safely use acrylics and pastels for weathering. If you are nervous about applying an oil based 'pin wash' to panel lines etc you can also safely use a 'clay' based wash like those from Flory's models.They are quick and easy and,in my opinion,work very well. They used to be called Promodeller washes but a large (and here nameless) manufacturer threatened to sue if he didn't change the name of his product.

I spray my exhaust staining and in this case you can use enamel paints if you want.

As far as priming goes I always prime for precisely the reasons given above. I don't believe that priming is vital for enamels but do it anyway. I don't for example prime detail parts which I always paint with enamels. I guess we all work out what works best for us!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Deisenaut]

thanks again - off to Halfords then! Build starts day after christmas so will post pics - happy christmas!

 

[Waffen Bucks]

I too have had issues and problems with this situation. Should an acrylic wash be acrylic paint/acrylic thinner, or acrylic paint/water?

 

[dubster72]

I'd always thin acrylic paint with its recommended thinner, not water though I'm sure many do without any problems. Having said that, I'd always prefer to do a wash with oil or enamel paint as acrylic dries too quickly for me.

Patrick

 

[Waffen Bucks]

Thanks Patrick. I have used water at times before but it seemed to soften the layer of acrylic below it. Really should've let it cure first. Andrew

 

[dubster72]

Giving the paint time to cure properly is essential Andrew & with modern fast drying acrylics, it's often forgotten! Your problem may well have been the 2 lots of acrylic reacting with each other so try to use oil / enamel over acrylic or vice versa to avoid the problem.

Patrick

 

[Waffen Bucks]

Thanks. I may try the enamel wash over the acrylics. It is a problem with acrylics (or me), they feel touch dry and you think it's fully dry and ready for another coat etc.

Andrew

 

[dubster72]

If I might be so bold, invest in some oil paints. I bought a set of 12 Windsor & Newton oils over 3 years ago for £20 & I'm not even halfway through them.

They're excellent for washes, dot filters & figure painting.

They do takes ages to dry though, but that's part of their flexibility.

 

[Waffen Bucks]

Yeah, i may just do that. Had thought about getting some for my figures etc before Xmas, never got round to it. My local "Works" discount book shop is really good for good priced tubes of acrylics, water colours and oils. May have to pop in and see what they've got. I have even thought about using some of the wifes cosmetics etc for facial features. I find dark eye shadow is good for smoke effects on engines etc.

 

[dubster72]

Well if you do use the other half's makeup, check it's not the expensive stuff - mine wasn't too happy finding me experimenting doing panel lines with her £20 eye pencil!