Any documentation as to the reason for black and white Luftwaffe spirals?

[selrach]

Mates: It has been written that the spirals on Luftwaffe aircraft were to throw antiaircraft fire off its aim, or to signal friendly AA to refrain. Any RLM or other official documentation for this? Seems like the spiral would compromise the concealment effects of camo.

 

[Ian M]

It was so that the people on the ground could see that the prop was turning.

RAF went for the easy option. Yellow tips to the blades. Which when spinning make a big yellow circle.

Ian M

 

[Dave W]

Quite a few airlines use the spiral on jet engine spinners for the same reason,to let engineers like me know the engines are running.Although I find the engine noise is generally a bit of a give away.

 

[Ian M]

Them ear warmers are pretty good then John LOL

Ian M

 

[tr1ckey66]

Ditto above...

To stop ground crew becoming sliced bacon.

I don't think you'd see the spiral from the ground (firing your AA gun)... unless it was about to hit you. And I think it's just too small to be used to differentiate friend from foe in the air. In most air battles (gun camera footage) all you can see is a blurred silhouette in which it's even difficult to make out the shape of the aircraft never mind the spinner spiral

Cheers

Paul

 

[spanner570]

Sorry everyone but you are all wrong......

The spirals were only applied during the latter days of the war, when Germany realised they would loose. They painted them on to get there own back on future generations of modellers who have mostly tried in vain to successfully paint the bloody things on their Luftwaffe models!

 

[stona]

Mates: It has been written that the spirals on Luftwaffe aircraft were to throw antiaircraft fire off its aim, or to signal friendly AA to refrain. Any RLM or other official documentation for this? Seems like the spiral would compromise the concealment effects of camo.

There is quite a bit of RLM/Luftwaffe documentation on this marking and it confirms that it was a tactical identification marking, just like a yellow rudder or coloured fuselage band.

An ULTRA intercept of 12th February .

"All fighter aircraft of Luftflotte 3 and Luftflotte Reich to have black and white spirals turning in same direction as spinner width one fifth of diameter of spinner."

This caused the typical confusion and various units sought clarification. This, another ULTRA intercept was a clarification.

" Now known that all aircraft markings instructions in KV9270 [above] apply to all Luftflotte 3 aircraft. Spiral on spinner to be black and white. Additional identification markings to be retained exclusively for fighters, ground attack, heavy fighters and recce aircraft."

Now the marking has been expressly grouped with other identification markings.

On 20th July 1944 a more extensive document was issued to clarify exactly which units and where should apply the new marking.

"With effect from today, the recognition markings of our own aircraft in the Western Area (Germany, France and Italy) will be changed as follows.

1 (a) Fighters, including twin engine fighters, ground attack and reconnaissance aircraft are to have a black and white spiral painted on their spinners.

1 (b) All other operational aircraft, no special recognition markings.

2 (a) Captured aircraft flown, if operationally, to be marked as per 1 (a) above" [A reference to Italian aircraft used on the Italian front]

Now people today come up with all sorts of theories as to why the spirals were applied, but at the time the Luftwaffe applied them as a recognition marking and nothing else. Some units had been applying spirals to spinners long before the adoption of this marking. There are pictures of Bf 109 G-6s of JG 1 sporting a version of the spiral that can be positively dated to May 1943.

The recognition spirals developed from an older Gruppe/Staffel spinner marking when the spinner would be painted in the Gruppe colour and a spiral applied in the Staffel colour.

As for throwing of an air gunners aim, one US gunner claimed that the highly visible spiral gave a good aiming point !

Cheers

Steve

 

[ojays]

WOW, the things we learn on here, and not just related to modelling!

 

[stona]

A mate of mine used to work on the flight line at BHX and always said that the spiral on modern jets was to indicate that the fan was turning. A flight line is a very noisy place and your protected hearing is not always enough. He also told me that some aircraft engines, when mounted high, typically at the back, don't have the spirals as in this case they are not needed. I've never been around modern jets, except on the inside, so I have to take his word for it.

Rolls Royce claim on their web site that the spirals act as a bird deterrent but an independent investigation determined that the spirals do not in fact have a deterrent effect. I've no idea how they worked that out

Coming back to the Luftwaffe, the spiral was not intended as a warning to crew on the ground that the propeller was spinning. It may have had that effect unintentionally. Unlike most other air forces the Luftwaffe did not add safety markings (like the RAF's yellow propeller tips) to their aircraft's propellers.

Cheers

Steve

 

[tr1ckey66]

I stand corrected!

So now you know!!! Lol

Paul

 

[Dave W]

I've worked on busy military and civil flight lines myself and you have to have your wits about you at all times.You don't need to look at the spinners to see if the engines are running.There are plenty of other visual indicators of what's going on before you get close enough to see the spinners.

 

[tr1ckey66]

Hi Dave

Have you ever worked on Tornados, Jags or Harriers?

You may be the go-to guy for advice on modern jets

Cheers

P

 

[Dave W]

Hi DaveHave you ever worked on Tornados, Jags or Harriers?

You may be the go-to guy for advice on modern jets

Cheers

P

I worked on Tornados for the Saudi Airforce in Dhahran from 1988 to 1995.Wouldnt call myself an expert though and my memory is not brilliant. But I will help if I can.

 

[selrach]

Steve, All, Thanks for your input. The ultra messages etc. would seem to be conclusive evidence indeed. I have always wondered about this. I did read of an ace LW pilot who said the spirals were to distract return fire but I guess he didn't get the memo.