Disappointed with my H&S Ultra

[Gern]

There's been much discussion about A/Bs over the last couple of weeks. Here's another one I'm afraid.


My old cheapo Chinese A/B gave up the ghost just before Xmas so I checked around and decided to buy a H&S Ultra on the strength of a few reviews I'd seen which were all favourable. Alas, I just can't get to like it.


I know this shouldn't happen:






That's bubbles blown back through the air cap and short of using pliers or similar, I can't tighten it any further to stop this.


Cleaning is a nightmare. I use these:






I'm only using acrylics and normally a couple of cups of meths followed by a few drops of Ultimate cleaner is enough. With this brush, I have to take the cap off and soak it in cellulose thinners and then use two or three cups of each cleaner.


I don't just run the cleaners through - the brush gets stripped down (annoying when the paint cup falls off and spills a cleaner and paint mix over my worktop while I'm wiping the inside to clean it)






Not to mention these:






It's even more annoying when you go through that and reassemble the brush only to find there's a tiny bit of colour still showing when I spray a final few drops of thinner to leave it ready for next time ...


I'm no A/B expert so I've not put this in the review section. This is just my personal experience so please don't take this as an overall criticism of H&S brushes.


Anyway, I've just ordered one of those Fenghua brushes (from John of course) that Graham reviewed. There'll be a H&S Ultra with the extra 0.4mm needle set going up on ebay soon .....

 

[Fenlander]

Don't give up on it yet Dave, as you know I am having issues with this brush too. I also get the bubbles, like a bubble beard hanging from below the cap to body seal. There is no proper gasket on this join and adding one may stop the nozzle sealing properly.


Main issue I have found is that mine does not appear to be letting enough air through. I have loosened the screw under the air valve and the airflow has increased a hell of a lot but I have not had chance to test it with paint yet.


If the air flow is wrong then the paint isn't going through the nozzle and it builds up in the nozzle itself and backs up. I have had the body of mine soaking in IPA but nothing has come out of it so my worries that dried paint is in the airway was unfounded.


Only way I can see round the bubble beard effect would be PTFE tape on the thread but this should not be necessary on a £60+ airbrush. However, I think the bubble beard is simply because the paint cannot get through the nozzle.


I have not used this airbrush that much but the amount of stripping and cleaning it has had to have has left the chrome fading on the barrel.


Might have to contact H&S direct to see what they say. I know that technically it is a budget brush but I could have bought four of the ones of John for the price or three with the .4 needle and nozzle sets.


If I can find anything out I will of course let you know so hang on a bit longer.


You will notice on the one from John that it is a longer needle travel compared to the Ultra. I do like it though, it a decent airbrush and, up to now I have only cleaned it by flushing through, not took the nozzle off yet it cleans very easily.

 

[Gern]

I thought paint build up might be a possible cause of the bubbles so I asked John to price up a pinch nozzle - so called because it allows you to wipe the nozzle of your brush while painting without risking damage to the needle. Along with the special air cap needed to go with it, the cost was more than the Fenghua brush. That's not down to John, it's just how H&S price their spares. I had to use a bit of PTFE tape to seal that joint on my old A/B - but as it only cost about £10 I didn't mind. Like you though, I don't believe I should have to correct a brush that cost over £60.


It's not just that though. It's the whole issue with cleaning and it somehow doesn't feel comfortable when I'm spraying with it. Plus I'm always worried that the paint cup might work loose as it has done a couple of times while cleaning. I can live without the mess it would cause if it came off while I was painting.


Maybe I'm just too used to my old brush and haven't given myself enough time to get used to this one. I'll see what this Fenghua brush is like. If that's as easy to clean as you say, that's the one I'll be using. I don't like having to spend 20 minutes cleaning up after a 5 minute painting session.


And, of course, if it does go wrong or I break something I can buy a complete replacement set of parts in the form of a new A/B for less than £20!

 

[dubster72]

Dave, those bubbles trouble me greatly - I've never had that happen with my Ultra. I'm inclined to think that the nozzle isn't seating properly within the nozzle cap.


I don't think that it's caused by a paint build-up, usually when air comes back it's because there's a sealing problem.


If I was you, I'd be looking for a replacement before getting rid of the AB. Either there's a manufacturing problem or a fake H&S has sneaked through. Counterfeit goods are catching out a number of reputable retailers.


I'm also surprised by the difficulties you're having with cleaning the brush. Personally I love the ease of the H&S design which I find much easier that the traditional screw-in nozzle. I've never once worried about the paint cup coming loose - mine seems an excellent fit.


I'd do as Graham said & give it more time before junking it. You'll only lose money by selling it.

 

[phikoleoputra]

Sorry to hear that Dave, I also currently using H&S Evolution Silverline, so far no problem while using & cleaning it. I exclusively use enamel and lacquer paints, so I use those hardcore cellulose thinner to clean. Cleaning is a bit trickier than my favourite gun Olympos HP-C, but the H&S is a nice brush IMHO.


Also buying this stuff by H&S (Nozzle Cleaner) also not a bad investment for the long run. Hope that helps and good luck with your gun. Cheers

 

[Fenlander]

Dave, those bubbles trouble me greatly - I've never had that happen with my Ultra. I'm inclined to think that the nozzle isn't seating properly within the nozzle cap.
I don't think that it's caused by a paint build-up, usually when air comes back it's because there's a sealing problem.


If I was you, I'd be looking for a replacement before getting rid of the AB. Either there's a manufacturing problem or a fake H&S has sneaked through. Counterfeit goods are catching out a number of reputable retailers.


I'm also surprised by the difficulties you're having with cleaning the brush. Personally I love the ease of the H&S design which I find much easier that the traditional screw-in nozzle. I've never once worried about the paint cup coming loose - mine seems an excellent fit.


I'd do as Graham said & give it more time before junking it. You'll only lose money by selling it.

Not sure about counterfeit goods but I have exactly the same problems as Dave with regard to the bubbles. The problem is that if it doesn't seal ok, then yes, air will leak past the cap but there shouldn't be liquid in there. It is the fact that there is no actual seal on the cap, unlike higher end H&S and the fact that as paint struggles to get through the nozzle, it causes more pressure on the cap seal and paint is forced back into the brush.


I have come to the conclusion that to make it cheaper (for a H&S) brush to compete with the Iwata Neo, H&S have cut the quality control too far and there are more of these duff brushes out there. Get a good one and you will be fine and I am sure that the upper end H&S are of the quality you would expect.


However, given that Dave's and mine suffer the same issues, I cannot recommend anyone buying one on the off chance they get a good one.


I may email H&S at the weekend to see what they have to say but I don't expect much from them.

 

[stona]

I've a question for you Dave.


Where are those bubbles coming from? It's hard to tell from the piccy. If they are coming from the back of the nozzle cap, where it meets the rest of the brush, then there is a failure to make an air tight seal. I agree that this should not be happening and you definitely shouldn't need to do anything more than tighten the cap 'finger tight'. PTFE tape is really difficult to apply to such a small thread, I've read that a smear of beeswax will do the trick (never tried myself though).


As for the cleaning, that must have more to do with the paint and thinners/cleaner than the airbrush. It does sound like a hell of a faff, but acrylics do dry very quickly, it is for some reason one of their selling points, and dried paint is always much harder to remove than wet paint. If you like to take your time, as I do, then fast drying paint systems will inevitably start to go off in the brush, thoroughly undesirable and with unfortunate consequences.


I wonder how many acrylic users have left what they thought was a clean airbrush for a few days only to find that the needle has glued itself into the nozzle with some residue they thought they'd removed?


I hope you get it sorted. You are not alone! A cursory scan of this and any other model related forum shows that airbrush questions are among the most often asked. I think I know why, at the risk of starting another row, I believe that some of the paints sold to modellers are not really suitable for airbrushing, just as others are not suitable for 'hairy sticking'...period.


Cheers


Steve

 

[john]

I may email H&S at the weekend to see what they have to say but I don't expect much from them

I've done it for you, they are usually very quick at replying, I will let you know.

 

[john]

I told you they are quick less than 20 mins, they have said "The Ultra doesn´t have a seal in the air cao" they are going to send me some, once I have them I will pop them in the post

 

[Fenlander]

I told you they are quick less than 20 mins, they have said "The Ultra doesn´t have a seal in the air cao" they are going to send me some, once I have them I will pop them in the post

Wow, cheers John. But if there is a seal why does it not come with the airbrush?

 

[john]

But if there is a seal why does it not come with the airbrush?

I have no idea, you think for what it costs them it wouldn't make too much of a difference to the cost price, and I bet if they increased the price by 50p no one would bother


I've asked H&S the same question

 

[CharleyGnarlyP290]

I wonder how many acrylic users have left what they thought was a clean airbrush for a few days only to find that the needle has glued itself into the nozzle with some residue they thought they'd removed?

I have... but it was for about ten years! Painted the tail of a B-17 thought I had the airbrush cleaned and packed it away. Went to use thee airbrush when I got back into the hobby a few years ago and the needle was stuck, but good. Finally got it pulled out and it had a nice layer of the red paint on it. I was able to get it cleaned up, but it was a lesson well learned. Because of this, I probably go overboard cleaning my airbrushes, but they are guaranteed to be spotless when I use them again.

 

[john]

But if there is a seal why does it not come with the airbrush?

Got a reply.


"We only received claims regarding this issue in a single-digit range The seal for the air cap is a part which is technically speaking not much necessary and the Ultra is our low priced instrument for beginners."

 

[Fenlander]

Got a reply.
"We only received claims regarding this issue in a single-digit range The seal for the air cap is a part which is technically speaking not much necessary and the Ultra is our low priced instrument for beginners."

Oh right so H&S think that a 'beginner' is ok with a substandard brush and that if they have one frothing at the mouth, so to speak, it will encourage them to buy a more expensive H&S brush? Err, no is encourages beginners to never buy another H&S brush. What are they thinking?


However, thank you John for taking this up with them, customer service well above and beyond the call of duty I think

 

[Fenlander]

I have... but it was for about ten years! Painted the tail of a B-17 thought I had the airbrush cleaned and packed it away. Went to use thee airbrush when I got back into the hobby a few years ago and the needle was stuck, but good. Finally got it pulled out and it had a nice layer of the red paint on it. I was able to get it cleaned up, but it was a lesson well learned. Because of this, I probably go overboard cleaning my airbrushes, but they are guaranteed to be spotless when I use them again.

We have all, well most of us, done the same at some point

 

[stuart.c.82]

In the short time I've been using this forum I have made 1 definate decision....... John is my all time hero. :P


Shame you don't live closer to me John I'd be round regularly for model building lessons!

 

[stona]

I'm not sure what 'technically speaking not much necessary' means. The brakes on my car are technically speaking not much necessary as long as I don't drive it. I think the good folks at H+S might want to re-think this


Cheers


Steve

 

[Fenlander]

In the short time I've been using this forum I have made 1 definate decision....... John is my all time hero. :P
Shame you don't live closer to me John I'd be round regularly for model building lessons!

I wouldn't do that Stuart, he would have you locked in the packing department wrapping orders for 12 hours a day all for half a bowl of gruel a week and only an hours holiday per year for Christmas lunch......... :D

 

[Fenlander]

I'm not sure what 'technically speaking not much necessary' means. The brakes on my car are technically speaking not much necessary as long as I don't drive it. I think the good folks at H+S might want to re-think this
Cheers


Steve

Well, technically speaking you don't need brakes to drive it, you only need brakes to stop it


Can I just say before anyone thinks I am anti H&S, I am not. I know that their top end airbrushes are amongst, if not, the best you can buy and are beautifully made. If I had £150 to splash out on an airbrush, it would be H&S without a doubt. In fact I hope one day I can because I would.


I just wonder if the budget end of the big guys brushes are really worth it. If I was advising a beginner to buy a brush I would not advise they spent £60+ pounds on something that they could so easily damage. I would advise a beginner to do what I, and a lot of others have done, and go the £15-20 route and if they trash it, no big loss. Bend a needle tip on a H&S and it will cost you more than a decent cheap airbrush from John to replace it. Bend a needle tip on one of the cheap airbrushes and it will cost you a couple of quid.


By all means move up the ladder when you are ready but don't waste money before you know how to deal with the problems.

 

[Gern]

Ooops! I didn't mean so start all this off!


The bubbles I'm getting are coming from the join between the air cap and the main body of the brush. That join should have a seal and it surprises me to see that H&S believe it doesn't need one!


Talk about going the extra mile for customer service? John - you're a star!


I'll hang on to it and give it another try when I get a seal and see how I get on - but I still have niggling doubts about the removable cup. Meanwhile, thanks to John's usual impeccable service, I've got a Fenghua A/B to play with!


Incidentally, the instructions on the Fenghua brush explicitly recommend that you cover the end of the brush and 'blow back' to help clean it. I've seen several comments saying you shouldn't do that as it might damage seals or blow liquids back into parts of the brush where they don't belong. Now I'm confused - again - as usual!