ME110 Colours

[Dave W]

I am just about to start painting a Fujimi ME110C.I have decided to finish it as a machine of ZG26 Wespen (wasp).The kit provides a nice colour painting guide,but doesnt give any paint refs.The colours look to me like RLM74/75/02 upper sufaces with RLM76 undersides and a yellow fuselage band just aft of the wing trailing edge.I also have a Super Scale decal sheet that gives you a ZG26 machine but in RLM70/71/65 colours with yellow wing tip lower surfaces.And to add to the confusion my copy of 'The Official Monogram Painting guide to German Aircraft' gives RLM74/75/76 with a fuselage mottle of RLM02/70/74 as the standard Zerstorer camouflage.Any advice would appreciated.

 

[AlanG]

Zerstrergeschwader 26 - ZG 26

http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/messerschmitt_bf110/Bf110C_Germany_ZG26_1.png

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/lps/images/lps_48001_p.jpg

 

[stona]

Hi Dave,Luftwaffe colours hey! You will be well aware what a minefield this is. I've just had a quick flick through a couple of John Vasco's excellent references for the Bf110 and hope to cast some light for you.

Nothing is ever certain with Luftwaffe colours but I'd be very surprised if the 70/71/65 scheme is correct. I think there is a concensus that the basic scheme would have been,as the good old Monogram guide had it,74/75 over 76. This is after all a standard Messerschmitt,RLM approved scheme and at this stage of the war I can't imagine machines leaving the factory in esoteric schemes. The mottle and tactical markings are another thing. I'd be 90% sure that mottle applied at the point of production was in the two camouflage greys (74 and 75) but what happened after that is anyone's guess. Interpreting B+W photos is a dark art indeed! On the few colour pictures I've seen of these aircraft I can't see any definite evidence of any other colours in the mottle.

The yellow tactical markings could both be correct,I'm looking at a photo of a machine from 1./ZG1 which has the fuselage band AND yellow lower wing tips,standard theatre markings for the Ost front.

What code letters are on your subject? We may get lucky and I might have a photo of it. It's a slim chance but you never know!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Dave W]

Firstly,thanks to Flounder for the ME110 side views.The aircraft shown in the Fujimi painting guide has the codes G9+IN (with a red 'I').Fujimi say it is a machine of 5/ZG1.The super scale decal sheet gives codes G9+TC and give the unit as 1/ZG26.My copy of squadron/signal 'Luftwaffe in action' has a photo of BF110C on the eastern front ,which it describes as having 'The unique wasp insignia of Zerstorer geschwader1.It's also got a very wide yellow fuselage band just forward of the fuselage Balkenkreuz.So I'm a bit confused at the moment unless Stona can shed any light on the subject?.

 

[stona]

Luftwaffe codes can be tricky too. The unit code,that's the first two letters,for ZG1 was only G9 after it's initial formation until it was disbanded (1/5/39 to 22/6/40). It was reformed from SKG210on 4/1/42 with that unit's code,S9. The third letter after the Balkenkreuz is the aircraft identification letter,usually in the staffel (squadron) colour. The final letter is the aircraft's individual identification letter.

The history of the group is rather convoluted and difficult to explain.The ZG26 connection is easy,on 13/10/43 ZG1 was renamed I./ZG26.To muddy the waters ZG1 was reformed around this time (from units of KG40) and less than a year later was transformed into JG4 for defence of the Reich operations.

I think I've got that correct,I'm not a Zerstorer expert!

Do you have dates for the different profiles? The earliest yellow bands that I can think of would have been applied,as you describe,infront of the markings in 1941 for the campaign in the Balkans.

Cheers

Steve

 

[AlanG]

i could only find the D model with this coding WINGS PALETTE - Messerschmitt Bf.110 - Germany (Nazi)

 

[AlanG]

Me 110 C, 5/ZG1 Wespen, Fujimi

 

[Dave W]

Unfortunately the profiles don't give any dates.But I think I'm getting a bit carried away.Whilst it would be nice to be historically accurate,Luftwaffe colour schemes are a minefield as you say.I think i would be happy just to build a half decent representation of a BF110C.I shall probably use stona's colours and the Fujimi decals(because they are the best quality).Ive always found Luftwaffe aircraft a fascinating subject.I built up a large collection in 1/72 when I was in my teens (all gone now).Matchbox and Frog did all the interesting stuff that Airfix wouldn't do.

 

[Dave W]

Thanks for the picture flounder.Thats a D model?.The Fujimi kit can be made as a C or D.But it only has spinners in the kit of the shape I associate with BF109E's.The one in the photo has the later spinner type.This could go on and on!.Think i will just fnish it in stona's suggested colours.

 

[AlanG]

Dave the one in the pic is a G model...my bad lol

 

[stona]

I've been looking through two or three Bf110 books to see if I could find anything definitive for you but in the end I think you've gone for an option which is a safe bet! You can really drive yourself mad with Luftwaffe aircraft and the later in the war you look the more confusing it gets. As a result of my fascination with these aircraft I am now permanently confused.

If you are interested in Bf110 references I would recommend these two volumes by John Vasco.

Just by the way the Bf109E used five different spinner variations that I know of. Essentially the uncapped one (early) and then four different capped ones.

Good luck with your model.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Dave W]

Thanks for the advice.I've changed my mind slightly about the colours.I have several books with plenty of photos of ME110's.On one particular 'wespen' aircraft the fuselage side look like they might beRLM02 as there is a definite difference between that and the underside colour.So far I've sprayed the undersides RLM76 and the fuselage and fins RLM02.Then I will do the wings and upper fuselage RLM74/75 with a mottle of both on the fins and fuselage sides.What do you think?.Haven't decided on the yellow theatre markings yet.I taking me longer than normal to do because I'm finishing off a Trumpeter Wellington as well.Just got some Modeldecal RAF Roundels and code letters thru the post as the kit ones are to bright red.The only criticism of a good kit.

 

[stona]

It's so hard interpreting B+W photos. I recently looked at some B+W photos of an early Fw190 with a friend. I reckoned it was a bog standard 74/75 upper surface camouflage scheme,he said it could be 71/02. The problem is that most of the circumstantial evidence,date, RLM approved schemes,etc would suggest I was correct but from the photographic evidence there really is no way of telling one scheme from the other. Obviously in colour they would look quite different. Don't get me going on colourised photographs!!!! They're a bloody nuisance.

Some odd things did happen,particularly when the early green scheme was oversprayed. I'll have another look but my instinct would be that the upper surface camouflage would be 74/75 and any mottling on the fuselage sides or fins could well be in 02. I'm trying to remember a solid RLM02 fuselage,maybe I need another look! With the "wespen" is it a ZG1 aircraft? They certainly mottled in 74/75 and 02.

In the end we just have to paint our models the way we like,I certainly won't be claiming to know if that's right or wrong.

I recently built only my second ever Trumpeter kit (the two seat Me262 nightfighter) and was very impressed. They do seem to have upped their game.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Dave W]

what impressed me about the Trumpeter kit was it needed hardly any filler at all.I was also impressed by the interior detail.Everything is included down to the elsan!.But then what's the point off all that detail if it can't be seen on the finished model?.Going back to the ME110 I've got to wasp options with my decal sheets.The Fujimi sheet has codes G9+IN and is supposed to be 5/ZG1.The Superscale sheet is for G9+TC and is supposed to be 1/ZG26.

 

[stona]

Everything is included down to the elsan!.But then what's the point off all that detail if it can't be seen on the finished model?

I know what you mean. The Me262 has fuel tanks,radio equipment,compressed air bottles,engines that are kits in themselves and probably other stuff I've forgotten,all of which is completely unseen.

Steve

 

[Dave W]

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Just finished the Fujimi ME110.I was rather heavy handed with the airbrush doing the mottle,but apart from that im happy with it .I had my first go at exhaust stains as well!.The after market wasp decals wouldnt comform to the shape of the nose. So i ended up using the kit supplied wasp tails and hand painted the wasp heads on.Looks like the ground crewman who painted it had been at the schnapps or some Russian vodka he'd just 'liberated'!.Im still not sure the colour scheme is right!. when i'd finished it i found a colour profile in one of my books that is a variation on the kit paint scheme (see photo's).Anyway,i'm happy with it.

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[AlanG]

Looks good Dave. If you want to try and get the decals to mold around surfaces then get hold of some Micro set. It will help it bend around things and mak it look more like it's painted on.

 

[Dave W]

I used microsol and microset but the decals were quite thick and were nearly 20 years old!

 

[AlanG]

You can give the decal a couple of applications with Micro Set....sorry if it sounds like i'm trying to make you suck eggs lol

 

[Dave W]

That's ok.All advice gratefully received.