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Stevekir
Guest
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Stevekir
Guest
I have noticed that some models in RAF camouflage show different shades of RAF Dark Earth and RAF Dark Green. So I chose four painted versions of each, painted some plastic (by brush for easiness) three colour coats, then two of Tamiya Gloss Clear varnish X 22 (suitable for adding decals) then one of Tamiya Clear Semi-gloss X 35 to form a finish coat. The semi gloss turned out to be glossy despite prolonged and vigorous shaking and might have affected the colour. Perhaps an airbrushed version would be less glossy. In future I will use a full matt, sprayed.
Here are the results when photographed in direct sunlight outdoors with the white balance of the camera set to that light. The colours on my screen are similar to those on the plastic. However, the absolute colours on your screen might be different but the differences, one colour from another, should be obvious. (The descriptions in " " are provided by the Memsahib. I asked her to use terms that a bloke might understand.)
View attachment 63116
Dark Earth
The Vallejo (acrylic) and the Humbrol enamel are identical to each other, and are quite a rich brown. "Coffee with a little milk".
The Xtracryllix and Humbrol acrylic are identical to each other, but both are distinctly lighter than the first two. "Coffee with more milk, a hint of khaki".
Dark green
The Tamiya (acrylic) and the Xtracrylix are almost identical to each other and are a sludge green-brown (a brown with a hint of green, browner then the greenish colour in the image, on my screen). (The Xtracrylix is slightly greener.)
The Humbrol enamel is a dark but quite strong green. ("Pine green").
The Humbrol acrylic is a lighter and less strong green than the Humbrol enamel but is definitely green prepared with the first two. "Apple leaf green".
Interestingly, only three out of the eight claim to the RAF colours. The original examples that I have seen are faded or otherwise damaged. The Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart gives hexadecimal colour definitions but there remains the problem of the accuracy of computer screens and printers. I am not one to be obsessive about the accuracy of colours but I don't want my models to look drab, especially with the idea of scale effect. I fancy using the Vallejo Dark Earth and the Humbrol acrylic Dark Green.
What do other people use for RAF camo?
View attachment 64484
Here are the results when photographed in direct sunlight outdoors with the white balance of the camera set to that light. The colours on my screen are similar to those on the plastic. However, the absolute colours on your screen might be different but the differences, one colour from another, should be obvious. (The descriptions in " " are provided by the Memsahib. I asked her to use terms that a bloke might understand.)
View attachment 63116
Dark Earth
The Vallejo (acrylic) and the Humbrol enamel are identical to each other, and are quite a rich brown. "Coffee with a little milk".
The Xtracryllix and Humbrol acrylic are identical to each other, but both are distinctly lighter than the first two. "Coffee with more milk, a hint of khaki".
Dark green
The Tamiya (acrylic) and the Xtracrylix are almost identical to each other and are a sludge green-brown (a brown with a hint of green, browner then the greenish colour in the image, on my screen). (The Xtracrylix is slightly greener.)
The Humbrol enamel is a dark but quite strong green. ("Pine green").
The Humbrol acrylic is a lighter and less strong green than the Humbrol enamel but is definitely green prepared with the first two. "Apple leaf green".
Interestingly, only three out of the eight claim to the RAF colours. The original examples that I have seen are faded or otherwise damaged. The Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart gives hexadecimal colour definitions but there remains the problem of the accuracy of computer screens and printers. I am not one to be obsessive about the accuracy of colours but I don't want my models to look drab, especially with the idea of scale effect. I fancy using the Vallejo Dark Earth and the Humbrol acrylic Dark Green.
What do other people use for RAF camo?
View attachment 64484
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I use for the most Xtracrylix as I like the finish on them.
I was quite surprised by the differences in the Humbrol enamel and acrylic. One would assume that they (Humbrol) would be able to match the colours of their own paints better than that!!
I also use White Ensign enamels and the finish on those are also very good. Interestingly enough there is quite a difference between these and Xtracrylix as well. Strange when they both claim to be matched to original colour chips.
My days of getting hung up on 100% accurate colour are long gone and I work on the "If it looks right, it is right" theory.
Ian M
I was quite surprised by the differences in the Humbrol enamel and acrylic. One would assume that they (Humbrol) would be able to match the colours of their own paints better than that!!
I also use White Ensign enamels and the finish on those are also very good. Interestingly enough there is quite a difference between these and Xtracrylix as well. Strange when they both claim to be matched to original colour chips.
My days of getting hung up on 100% accurate colour are long gone and I work on the "If it looks right, it is right" theory.
Ian M
I use Xtracolour enamels or Vallejo air Acrylics.I like the finish of the Xtracolour and think they are a good match for some war time colour photos of RAF aircraft I have seen.The Vallejo paints are slightly different shades but I like the fact they are ready thinned for the airbrush and in convenient to use eye dropper bottles.Like Ian, I don't worry about the shade being totally accurate.
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tecdes
Guest
Steve I used to get hung up about being exact with the colour laid down but now like Ian if I like it that is it.
I bet there are not many who would look at the brown & green & say that is not right. Not for getting that colours in the real change one with white/black light which gives a different colour in the morning & evening to the midday colour. Having worked in video filming I found there is quite a difference during those different periods. Next is sunlight which will change a colour bleaching normally lighter.
You have to be careful with photographs. The photographer can change the colours & intensity to suit his taste. Also when on computer photos viewed on a monitor will unless the monitor has been callibrated by a pro. look probably way out. Also a printer will have it's own little colour ideas just to muddy the waters a bit more.
So I choose my brown, green & greys. Just looked at my models & found I obviously do not colour match as they are all different.
Laurie
I bet there are not many who would look at the brown & green & say that is not right. Not for getting that colours in the real change one with white/black light which gives a different colour in the morning & evening to the midday colour. Having worked in video filming I found there is quite a difference during those different periods. Next is sunlight which will change a colour bleaching normally lighter.
You have to be careful with photographs. The photographer can change the colours & intensity to suit his taste. Also when on computer photos viewed on a monitor will unless the monitor has been callibrated by a pro. look probably way out. Also a printer will have it's own little colour ideas just to muddy the waters a bit more.
So I choose my brown, green & greys. Just looked at my models & found I obviously do not colour match as they are all different.
Laurie
I use Vallejo 29 Dark Earth on some 32 scale desert air force models but I also tried their Green Brown 30 as it looked a better match on a 48 scale BoB Spit allowing for scale effect.
For RAF Green Vallejo recommend US Dark Green 16.
It would be interesting to see how that compares with your test.
For RAF Green Vallejo recommend US Dark Green 16.
It would be interesting to see how that compares with your test.
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tecdes
Guest
Yes you brought up an important factor Barry. Scale effect. Found the larger the scale, ie 32 48 72 in that descending order (in architecture it is a reverse), looks better in lighter colours.
Vallejo 29 Earth & 16 are the ones I generally use but with some mixes just to lighten depending on the case in point. One thing that I do not like are very stark finishes. I try to get the colours not to merge but give e gentle look which I have no doubt the camouflage experts wish to achieve.
Laurie
Vallejo 29 Earth & 16 are the ones I generally use but with some mixes just to lighten depending on the case in point. One thing that I do not like are very stark finishes. I try to get the colours not to merge but give e gentle look which I have no doubt the camouflage experts wish to achieve.
Laurie
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Stevekir
Guest
I will do that when I get back from a week's holiday.\ said:
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Lancasterb1
Guest
As already highlighted there is no perfect match but to get a good or close match I use Vallejo or Lifecolour acrylics. There is also a suggestion that Testors Enamels are a close match as well so I suppose that it would be down to what you prefer........................
I used to use Humbrol 30 for the green, but it is too light. For the early dark earth/green RAF camouflage I use Humbrol 163 and 29. That is a very interesting experiment Steve, thanks fro showing it.
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Stevekir
Guest
Here it is.\ said:
View attachment 63442
The two paints have been added to the previous test image. The colours on my screen are a good match with the samples (although the Humbrol Enamel Dark Green, 30, is in the paint sample a stronger green).
The Vallejo GreenBrown is very different from the other Dark Earths. It is a ginger-brown (the Memsahib says), a stronger colour and lighter. It also looks more interesting to me. As to authenticity (and I agree that we need not be slaves to that, especially in view of the scale effect), here is a picture of the Science Museum's Spitfire. Its Dark Earth seems to my eyes (and I visited it last monday) and in the picture to be similar to the Vallejo GreenBrown, allowing for fading. Perhaps a mixture of 60% 71.030 and 40% 71.029 would be good.
View attachment 63441
The Vallejo Dark Green, 71.016, looks the same as the Tamiya RAF Dark Green XF-81 and the Xtracrylix RAF Dark Green, X 1001.
Although the Humbrol Enamel Dark Green, 30, is probably too strong a green, the green in the Spitfire picture has more green in it than the Tamiya and Xtracrylix (which seem to me rather gungy and dull) and the Humbrol Acrylic Dark Green, 30, seems on the right track.
Samples ("Chips") of Federal colours can be got on the Internet from the US for $35 each, but none is offered as authentic British colours. It would be interesting although expensive to see them.
View attachment 64782
View attachment 64783
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tecdes
Guest
I use Vallejo 29 & 16 dark earth & US dark green. Depending on scale aircraft shape etc & the camouflage pattern I tend to lighten the colours a little.
Better Steve if you experimented separating your colours. Having worked in architecture to test colours we would have a 10 foot gap between as one colour intimidates visually against the other. Better still to experiment with the two colours dark earth & green together to make sure you get the result which is pleasing. Some models I have seen have had very contrasty colours which to me does not look authentic or pleasing to my eye.
Also a factor if you use Vallejo matt varnish this is more matt than the Vallejo acrylic paint matt which gives a slightly different effect on the colour. All fascinating stuff. Often quote look at an emulsion finished room. One wall will look different to intersecting adjoining wall. Same if you illuminate your models it is best to use a white day light rather than a yellow tungsten which has a yellow hue & consequently passes that on to all other colours it has given light.
Laurie
Better Steve if you experimented separating your colours. Having worked in architecture to test colours we would have a 10 foot gap between as one colour intimidates visually against the other. Better still to experiment with the two colours dark earth & green together to make sure you get the result which is pleasing. Some models I have seen have had very contrasty colours which to me does not look authentic or pleasing to my eye.
Also a factor if you use Vallejo matt varnish this is more matt than the Vallejo acrylic paint matt which gives a slightly different effect on the colour. All fascinating stuff. Often quote look at an emulsion finished room. One wall will look different to intersecting adjoining wall. Same if you illuminate your models it is best to use a white day light rather than a yellow tungsten which has a yellow hue & consequently passes that on to all other colours it has given light.
Laurie
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Stevekir
Guest
Thanks Laurie, very interesting. Experimenting with the two colours next to each other on my next model is my next step.
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tecdes
Guest
Bit tired last night & missed a bit Steve.
There is a difference in my eyes between authentic as being absolute in every detail & my way what looks right authentic ie authentic with artistic manipulation to make it look as real as possible at the scale of the model.
Well pleased with the Wellington I produced as I used a greyblack for the fuselage & wings. Against the Lancaster where I used true black. The Wellington sits there looking like an aircraft while the Lanc looks like a toy.
God I am going on here.
Goodbye.
Laurie
There is a difference in my eyes between authentic as being absolute in every detail & my way what looks right authentic ie authentic with artistic manipulation to make it look as real as possible at the scale of the model.
Well pleased with the Wellington I produced as I used a greyblack for the fuselage & wings. Against the Lancaster where I used true black. The Wellington sits there looking like an aircraft while the Lanc looks like a toy.
God I am going on here.
Goodbye.
Laurie
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Stevekir
Guest
I agree with your principle about making a model look as real as possible as bing the top priority.
I read somewhere that the "black" for the underside of the Lancaster should not be black but slightly blue, and that there is a paint available called "Night", possibly for that purpose.
I read somewhere that the "black" for the underside of the Lancaster should not be black but slightly blue, and that there is a paint available called "Night", possibly for that purpose.
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tecdes
Guest
I would not put a rule on these things Steve. Find it best to keep an open mind.
Like cricket it depends on the circumnstances. Humid atmosphere get the swing bowlers on dry crumble wicket spinners. No wickets ? Go home to bed & think about it.
Laurie
Like cricket it depends on the circumnstances. Humid atmosphere get the swing bowlers on dry crumble wicket spinners. No wickets ? Go home to bed & think about it.
Laurie