Vulcan?

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

Ok so I was at Cosford and as soon as I arrived there was a great deal of fuss over the Vulcan and this been its final year of displays.


Now forgive me but, Yes its a nice aircraft but I don't get dreamy about it, forgive the pun but it leaves me cold. I know people will quote what an icon it is and what a great story the raid on the Falklands were, two hits out of 21 bombs dropped isn't a great point to make.


Look at it from another view it was a dated aircraft that was very lucky to make it because this country mothballs or refuses to spend any money on new tech, when we do, we spend far too much and get a raw deal.


Anyway my point is I like WWII planes a lot more than a Vulcan,


I await been roasted for such comments


Adrian

 

[flyjoe180]

It's one of Britain's aviation icons, from an era of radical and previously-unknown frontiers. It's also the last of the V-Bombers, a guarantee of mutual nuclear destruction. If nothing else it should stand as a reminder of that.

 

[PaulTRose]

i pretty much agree to be honest.............would be nice to keep it flying but theres too much that prevents it


id rather see that other lancaster airworthy, or a gaggle of other warbirds, for the price of the vulcan


stick it in a museum somewhere.....its an icon for sure but theres plenty of others from this era that would be cheaper/easier to keep flying

 

[ojays]

Not really into modern(ish) jets, however it brings back many memories of my youth when visiting Scampton in the 60's


Especially the new routine, that appears to be making the most out of it's last flight hours.


To see the way it is being thrown around like a little fighter, does it for me.


I also appreciate the amount of work that has gone into it, to keep it flying.


Just my own opinion.


Gregg

 

[Alan 45]

It's an iconic plane from a past era when we still thought of big bombers as the ultimate in air power.


I'm proud to have given money to keep this big old bird flying and I feel proud to have seen her fly.

 

[takeslousyphotos]

The bigger flew over our house when it was at Farnborough air show. It came over very low......Very loud......... and scared the crap out of our cat........

 

[dubster72]

I like the Vulcan, although I think the Victor was much more beautiful in shape & design.


However ... I do feel the thing about the Falklands raid kinda misses the point.


The issue wasn't how many bombs hit the target (although one hit did put Port Stanley airfield out of commission) ,but a projection of British armed strength to show the Argentine that we meant business.


The hard work, skill & ingenuity to read-equip aging aircraft to do mid-air refuelling, conduct an incredibly long over water flight with 30+ aircraft, just to get one Vulcan & one 1000lb bomb on target was an incredible feat.


Information received after the conflict proves that the Argentine military command took this mission very seriously & it's success directly affected the outcome of the conflict.

 

[colin m]

Nothing wrong with having a preference Adrian. However at the end of this year, you will still be able to see WW2 aircraft flying - but not a Vulcan.

 

[Bunkerbarge]

If you see the Falklands raid as "only" 2 hits out of 21 bombs I would strongly recommend that you read the book "Vulcan 607" by Rowland White and I will guarrantee that you will see this incident completely differently. In fact I would suggest that you at least read the reviews of the book here:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vulcan-607-Rowland-White/dp/0552152293


before making such comments.


Whether you like the Vulcan or not is one thing and entirely up to your own choice that no-one would hold against you but critisising the raid on Port Stanly airfield is an insult to what was probably one of the most strategically involved, complicated, daring, dangerous yet effective attacks in British military history. If you then realise that the guy who currently flies the Vulcan was the guy who dropped those two bombs on the runway you might also see the continued flying career of the current Vulcan in a slightly different way but, that aside, I can only suggest that you know your subject a little bit deeper before making such potentially inflamatory comments.

 

[eddiesolo]

I have seen her on the ground and she is a amazing looking beasty. I have seen videos of her flying and she sounds amazing. To see her permanently grounded would be a shame, I am not one for jets and love the prop versions but I think we should try and keep all memorial craft running. After all even the Vulcan is a piece of our countries history.


Si

 

[takeslousyphotos]

If you see the Falklands raid as "only" 2 hits out of 21 bombs I would strongly recommend that you read the book "Vulcan 607" by Rowland White and I will guarrantee that you will see this incident completely differently. In fact I would suggest that you at least read the reviews of the book here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vulcan-607-Rowland-White/dp/0552152293


before making such comments.


Whether you like the Vulcan or not is one thing and entirely up to your own choice that no-one would hold against you but critisising the raid on Port Stanly airfield is an insult to what was probably one of the most strategically involved, complicated, daring, dangerous yet effective attacks in British military history. If you then realise that the guy who currently flies the Vulcan was the guy who dropped those two bombs on the runway you might also see the continued flying career of the current Vulcan in a slightly different way but, that aside, I can only suggest that you know your subject a little bit deeper before making such potentially inflamatory comments.

I read "Vulcan 607" a while back ...... and yes Richard, it was an amazing achievement ........ 2 Bombs or 21 Bombs. I doesn't matter much, It was an amazing feat.......... and the book is a very good read.

 

[Alan 45]

Each to their own isn't it , I'm not a big fan of the spitfire but hey most aeroplane enthusiasts think it's awsome

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

Great military planning?


Sorry but I have seen and read a lot about that conflict and having been a recruit trained by some of those that were there feel I can talk about some areas.


It was a hopeful raid, I'm not taking anything away from the people that took part they were and always will be brave people who step up to the mark when needed.


My point was we shouldn't have been in a situation where we used aircraft that were at the end of it's shelf life due to cut backs and under funding.


As for the effect on the Argentines, I would say the Harrier had a greater effect in moral ( I'm no expert )


On Spitfires, yes they are nice aircraft, I love building the models of them but your right there not everyone's cup of tea


On aircraft that I think should still be flying, I'm not saying the Vulcan should be grounded, more that we should look at others that we should also have flying, such as the English Electric Lightning, F4 Phantoms and Harriers. I'm sure everyone has some aircraft they would love to see in the sky again.

 

[Airfix Modeller Freak]

Get the Horten 229 airborne once again! This aircraft is an important contribution to stealth technology. There are tons of Fw 190s and 109s on static display. Get them airborne again! There are too many spits and Mustangs around. We need more exotic subjects in the air, for instance, the He 219, an arado 234 etc


John

 

[rickoshea52]

I'm sorry Adrian but you're on shaky ground on the effects that the Blackbuck raids (there's was more than one) had on the Argentinian attitude to the conflict so far. The raids demonstrated the ability of the British to project power over such a long range and our determination to recapture the Falkland Islands along with the earlier recapture of South Georgia ; it was a foretaste of what to come when the task force closed on the islands and were far from hopeful.


The raids forced the Argentinians to redeploy their aircraft away from the islands making the landings less hazardous. A similar effect was apparent when Phantoms started CAPs over Ascension and Nimrod were armed with sidewinder missiles; the B707 surveillance aircraft soon scuttled off.


The obsolescence of the Vulcan is irrelevant in my opinion because despite it age it was still an effective weapon. By the end of the conflict it was clear that there were many shortcomings in the kit used by the British - the DMS boot being a prime example of out dated designs used in a (then) modern conflict.


And on the subject of obsolete kit, would you say that the General Belgrano was obsolete? The British didn't think so which is why she was sunk; even obsolete weapons can be effective.


My dad fought in the Falklands conflict and his battalions positions were bombed by Argentinian Canberras, easily past their shelf life by 1982 but still an effective aircraft. He told me that when news of the Blackbuck raids were circulated aboard SS Canberra the boost to morale amongst the Paras was massive.


Vulcan has a worthy place in the history of British military aviation, even if her greatest achievement came in her twilight years, the contribution that she made to the security of this country during the Cold War should be acknowledged.


I'd like to see a Nimrod in the sky again, by the way.

 

[Adrian "Marvel" Reynolds]

Regarding the Belgrano,,


"Some argue that, the ship being outside the British-declared Total Exclusion Zone would not affect this analysis, since the British Government stated on April 23rd, that ‘the approach’ of any warship or aircraft ‘which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of the British forces in the South Atlantic’ would encounter an ‘appropriate’ response. The Belgrano was neither ‘approaching’ the task force and was it a ‘threat’? That statement was put out while the British task force was still travelling South, as a warning that any approaching aircraft etc might be shot. Once the Task Force had arrived, it then announced on 28 April the Total Exclusion Zone – and, that would have superceded an earlier statement. War was not declared, that is why these definitions were important."


From the inquiry, so sank before war was declared and outside the exclusion zone. Some might see that as a push towards war.


My original point was and is still valid that we always play catch up or scrape together something rather than lead anymore, lessons should have been learnt from this conflict regarding kit and yet going into the 1st Gulf war our kit was still dropping to bits,( I had 3 pair of boots within days) as its supplied by the cheapest vendor so the rich get richer and serving personnel get shafted.

 

[peterairfix]

If any one can get there the vulcan will be at weston super mare air show this week end

 

[rickoshea52]

Regarding the Belgrano,,
"Some argue that, the ship being outside the British-declared Total Exclusion Zone would not affect this analysis, since the British Government stated on April 23rd, that ‘the approach’ of any warship or aircraft ‘which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of the British forces in the South Atlantic’ would encounter an ‘appropriate’ response. The Belgrano was neither ‘approaching’ the task force and was it a ‘threat’? That statement was put out while the British task force was still travelling South, as a warning that any approaching aircraft etc might be shot. Once the Task Force had arrived, it then announced on 28 April the Total Exclusion Zone – and, that would have superceded an earlier statement. War was not declared, that is why these definitions were important."


From the inquiry, so sank before war was declared and outside the exclusion zone. Some might see that as a push towards war.


My original point was and is still valid that we always play catch up or scrape together something rather than lead anymore, lessons should have been learnt from this conflict regarding kit and yet going into the 1st Gulf war our kit was still dropping to bits,( I had 3 pair of boots within days) as its supplied by the cheapest vendor so the rich get richer and serving personnel get shafted.

We can argue the toss all day on Belgrano but as far as I am concerned, a belligerent vessel of an enemy nation is fair game regardless of the direction it is pointing. It doesn't take long turn about and sail 36 miles back towards the FI's. The legitimacy or otherwise of her sinking isn't the point rather that even though obsolete she was still a formidable threat.


War wasn't declared by either nation.


On your point of the cheapest vendor, well - 'twas ever thus. Even in business the cheapest option is the best option. Airlines by the cheapest airliners, I buy the cheapest tyres for my car.

 

[dubster72]

A guy I know who's an ex-pat yank who flew F-15s said he reminded himself that his plane was built by the lowest bidder every time he strapped in!

 

[Bari]

I must admit to having a soft spot for the Vulcan having been stationed at Cottesmore when they were there and then working on them at St Athan from 1970-73. Lots of horrible jobs on them. I especially hated doing the non return valves for the in flight refuelling. These were located in the forward wing root, a pig of a job trying to do a three part clamp up while holding the valve up with one hand putting the rubber seal over the join and trying to screw the two parts of the clamp up with the other, this through two stupid little holes in the bulkhead and sight unseen while balancing on a set of wobbly steps, not a lot of health and safety those days. But to stand underneath one when you are doing engine runs, especially on full throttle is something that stays with you forever.