Vulcan?

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Laurie

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Vulcan. The two raids scared the living daylights out of the Junta. They retained their major strike aircraft in Argentina to counter the Vulcan should it stray ! towards Argentina. The Junta I suspect would have been finished if the Vulcan had struck at Argentina. They must have been dumb struck that an aircraft of this type could reach Argentina. Could bomb Buenos Aires.


The Belgrano. The point about the Belgrano was that their Aircraft carrier was in the north. The Belgrano in the south with 2 destroyers (British Built). A two point attack splitting British Forces. Clever. Why were they in these positions if they were not there to go to war !


The Belgrano, out side of the exclusion zone, was on the very edge of the Burwood Bank an area of sea which is shallow. The Argentinians knew that the Submarines in this case the Conqueror could not follow them over the shallows. What was to do. You sit there in a submarine and allow the dangerous Belgrano to cross the shallows (and not to be able to follow) and attack the British Fleet with the Argentinian Carrier attacking from the north.


No this is war no holds barred. You attack your main threat eliminate them. Conqueror with cabinet approval did that sank the Balgrano Then Admiral Jorge Anaya retired the Twenty-fifth of May Argentinian Carrier to port. The pince movement had failed. From then on there was no threat from the Argentine Navy although the Royal Navy were not to know that. Did not the Argentinians attack from outside the exclusion zone with their aircraft is that not the same as the Belgrano.


British Exclusion Zone. Anything in the zone would be attacked and destroyed. But anything out side that zone with the intention of attacking the Fleet would also be attacked. If you were in charge would you wait for a disaster to happen ? This was war, one side would win, no holds barred, war is a dirty game. It is not a game played to rules as football or cricket. In war you are not nice to your enemy you are there to win to restrict the losses. Last point who started the "game" ?


Laurie
 
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All, almost relevant points if it were not for the fact the Belgrano was headed East away from our fleet and had been doing so for some 11 hours when it was sunk!!!
 
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Laurie

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Actually she was heading around the Task Force the same distance at each part of the Belgrano's course as the map shows. Also say that if Drummond, the RN sub, had found 25 De Mayo she would have suffered the same fate.


This was the communique.


“In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty’s Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty’s Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.” This communique was issued thro. the Swiss authorities on the 23 May to the Argentinian Government .


Captain Bonzo of the Belgrano actually stated that the incident was legitimate..


Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, wrote in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition, that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This is the official position of the Argentine Navy.


Shows the course of 25 de Mayo and the Belgrano.If he was going home why the zig zags he was not aware of a sub then or before with his straight course. If it was going home what was it doing there any way by the Burwood Shallows. What was Admiral Sandy Woodward to do in this situation. If the De Mayo and Belgrano had come at him, which was their intention, he would have been court-martialled knowing that the Belgrano was in this position. The De Mayo tried to launch her aircraft just before the sinking of the Belgrano but thankfully there was not enough wind over the deck. This in itself is enough evidence to show that both units of war had one intention to attack the Task Force.


In The Silent Listener, the book’s author Major David Thorp recounts how in 1984 he was ordered by Mrs Thatcher to carry out an investigation — never published — into the circumstances of the sinking.


Given access to every document related to the Belgrano, Thorp, a member of a highly-secret signals-intercept unit during the Falklands War, describes in his book how he found an Argentinian signal intercepted by the British in which the Belgrano was ordered to rendezvous with other Argentinian warships at a location east of the islands, and well inside the Exclusion Zone.


Just to finish what were these two warships doing in their positions if it was not to make war. They would have been in port. Belgrano was sunk 9 days after the Swiss passed on the communique. After all they knew that 3 RN subs were there it was splashed in news papers all around the world.


Laurie
 
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Your map clearly shows Belgrano headed east as I stated and not north towards the fleet, as for zig zags, whether he was aware or not of submarines as a prudent commander he may have taken action as he saw fit.


I can copy and paste just as many references opposing yours, this will not change the way I feel about the original subject matter!
 

Alan 45

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I thought this was about the Vulcan bomber


In Adrian s defence if he don't like the Vulcan he don't have too
 

john i am

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Dogs and their bones they just won't let go woof! Back onto the subject matter and not the Falklands. I personally love the Vulcan big brash n very noisy just like my wife!

If Adrian doesn't like the Vulcan that's his personal choice and we should "all" respect his opinion


Just "my" opinion on the subject.


Others are widely available cheers John :eek::eek::eek:
 

rickoshea52

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I hope you weren't disappointed in getting a roasting Adrian⁉


You mentioned that Vulcan leaves you cold, well in a similar vein I see yet another Spitfire model and don't feel the stir of interest that others might. But like when the Vulcan flew over my house at last years Farnborough air show the hairs on the back of my neck still stand up when I hear and see a Spitfire flying overhead.
 
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Roasted?


Is that what people are on here to do?


No-ones convinced me the Vulcan is anything more than a cold war jet, no-one proved the Belgrano was headed anywhere other than east, yes it may have posed a threat but was sank 36 miles outside the unrecognised in maritime law exclusion zone.


Another quote for the cut and paste mob


"The concept of a Total Exclusion Zone was a novelty in maritime law; the Law of the Sea Convention had no provision for such an instrument. The purpose of it seems to have been to reduce the amount of time needed to ascertain whether any vessel in the zone was hostile or not. The zone was widely respected by the shipping of neutral nations, possibly more out of prudence than respect for the United Kingdom's legal position."


People can post what they want as many times as they want in belief there opinion is the only one that is correct, all that happens is they get ignored in future.


That said, as soon as I see an admin online I'll ask them to close this thread, or if one is following this thread please close it :smiling3:
 

rickoshea52

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I'm sorry if you misunderstood my last comment, you did say in your op that you expected a roasting, I was trying to express my sentiments in a non inflammatory way and steer the topic away from a confrontational tone - I obviously failed.


Enjoy your modelling.
 

rickoshea52

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Coincidentally, my daughter goes up a school this year - her new class name is Vulcan! All the classes have an aviation theme.


Its fate Adrian!
 
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Laurie

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Yes so does John Redwood the MP known as "The Vulcan".


However I do not find him as attractive as the Avro type.


Laurie
 

yak face

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Ok folks , some interesting views there but i think for the sake of peace we'll leave it there before it goes on and on and gets out of hand . Im locking the thread
 
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