What a s**t morning

[David Lovell]

Primed up pieces last evening ,early done before seven ,so this morning took other half to work stopped on way home with our little rescue dog at my favourite place for him to have a walk then home.
So out with the new airbrush stuck some paint in straight from the bottle sprayed nice on paper wasn't to bothered about thinning only going to highlight a few panels /hatches etc not bad it was a bit coarse but took no notice as not thinned went on to mist the main colour over the top holy

So cleaned out airbrush had a think changed airbrush went back to highlight color

Starting to hate the hobby cleaned airbrush got out brand new bottle Italian desert paint tested neat on a nother piece

Can't under stand highlight colour sprays fine on cardboard box no thinner straight out of the bottle

So stripped the compressor took out drain plug not a lot got a few slpashes out by giving it a good shake removed whole unit with pressure gauge moisture trap removed trap wiped and cleaned inside there is a white filter in the top that is damp but nothing in the moisture trap itself that was dry ive another trap below the air brush that was empty/dry so have squirted some paint on the model again I think it seems to have covered the other stuff???? Was the primer iffy is there/ was there now ive stripped it something coming through from the compressor fouling the paint the one time I did thin I used ammo stuff so should've been OK.


Have half rescued it not too worried will get over it from here, seems the crap coat once dry sealed/ dryed up or dryed up sealed off the primer one thing next one won't be getting mr hobby aqueous surfacer till I know it wasn't that. Your thoughts please gentlemen. Dave

 

[Miko]

Sometimes learning the hard way is the best way, you're getting past the problem, that's most of what modelling is about, resolving issues as they emerge.

Looks good to me

Miko (everyday is a school day)

 

[Scratchbuilder]

It appears some of us are suffering with paint problems of late. Is it the thinners, the varnish or the paint itself. It could be the paint is not stirred well enough or that we think it is ok to use, same with varnish over the paint, is the varnish reacting to the paint (crackle!).
And do not believe it is just the newer people to the hobby, I have gone through a stage with acrylics to the point of almost throwing the whole lot out the window. My solutions are this, I changed back to lacquers, but now use a spoon test before applying paint to model. I purchased about 100 white plastic spoons and now I go through the same process as I would with painting the model - first the primer is sprayed onto the spoon, if ok, then it goes on the model, then the base coat etc etc. And between each coat the spoon is treated the same, left to dry the same time and the next coat goes on top, I do not use a new spoon, then if there is a problem, I just about get where it is. I do give the spoon a rub with a piece of 1200 wet n dry before I start work to represent my working on the model. If you use airbrush cleaner to flush out the airbrush either between colours or after a final clean then put a half paint cup of thinners through the airbrush, this flushes out any cleaner/ipa solvent.

 

[David Lovell]

It appears some of us are suffering with paint problems of late. Is it the thinners, the varnish or the paint itself. It could be the paint is not stirred well enough or that we think it is ok to use, same with varnish over the paint, is the varnish reacting to the paint (crackle!).
And do not believe it is just the newer people to the hobby, I have gone through a stage with acrylics to the point of almost throwing the whole lot out the window. My solutions are this, I changed back to lacquers, but now use a spoon test before applying paint to model. I purchased about 100 white plastic spoons and now I go through the same process as I would with painting the model - first the primer is sprayed onto the spoon, if ok, then it goes on the model, then the base coat etc etc. And between each coat the spoon is treated the same, left to dry the same time and the next coat goes on top, I do not use a new spoon, then if there is a problem, I just about get where it is. I do give the spoon a rub with a piece of 1200 wet n dry before I start work to represent my working on the model. If you use airbrush cleaner to flush out the airbrush either between colours or after a final clean then put a half paint cup of thinners through the airbrush, this flushes out any cleaner/ipa solvent.

Bummer thing is Mike I've done nothing diffrent from what I've done for absolute ages , I've found a old turret and primed it with one shot so tomoz morning ill go again at least it will show if its the primer till then were have to hang in there. Cheers buddy Dave

 

[JR]

Look to me as experienced with paints going wrong, its something in the paint, that has the look of a fish eye type of contaminant .
Can't see you not cleaning the model first Dave so it has to be in the mix.

 

[Mark1]

Looks like some sort of grease or silicone has got on the model,this happens in the motor trade from time to time, to save sanding and repainting on occasion we've added a few drops of pure silicone additive to the paint

 

[Tim Marlow]

Bit of bad luck there Dave. Strange thing is, that sort of effect could be useful in weathering, but it’s not possible to recreate it at will……

 

[David Lovell]

Sometimes learning the hard way is the best way, you're getting past the problem, that's most of what modelling is about, resolving issues as they emerge.

Looks good to me

Miko (everyday is a school day)

It appears some of us are suffering with paint problems of late. Is it the thinners, the varnish or the paint itself. It could be the paint is not stirred well enough or that we think it is ok to use, same with varnish over the paint, is the varnish reacting to the paint (crackle!).
And do not believe it is just the newer people to the hobby, I have gone through a stage with acrylics to the point of almost throwing the whole lot out the window. My solutions are this, I changed back to lacquers, but now use a spoon test before applying paint to model. I purchased about 100 white plastic spoons and now I go through the same process as I would with painting the model - first the primer is sprayed onto the spoon, if ok, then it goes on the model, then the base coat etc etc. And b

Look to me as experienced with paints going wrong, its something in the paint, that has the look of a fish eye type of contaminant .
Can't see you not cleaning the model first Dave so it has to be in the mix.

Looks like some sort of grease or silicone has got on the model,this happens in the motor trade from time to time, to save sanding and repainting on occasion we've added a few drops of pure silicone additive to the paint

Bit of bad luck there Dave. Strange thing is, that sort of effect could be useful in weathering, but it’s not possible to recreate it at will……

etween each coat the spoon is treated the same, left to dry the same time and the next coat goes on top, I do not use a new spoon, then if there is a problem, I just about get where it is. I do give the spoon a rub with a piece of 1200 wet n dry before I start work to represent my working on the model. If you use airbrush cleaner to flush out the airbrush either between colours or after a final clean then put a half paint cup of thinners through the airbrush, this flushes out any cleaner/ipa solvent.

RIGHT THEN
I'll hold my hands up now I am the complete modeling slob ,a airbrush blagger when it comes to everything airbrush honest I just pick it up and use it got my own wired way of doing lots of things laugh in the face of flow improver ,retarder ,never suffered tip drying and then the above happened why ive done nothing diffrent to what I usually do ,John R one of my dearest friends(though we've never physically met)ive never washed parts or builds in my life bit late to start now ,saying that I did once wash the parts for a resin kit wich brings us to the question ,one of the two builds greasy plastic ok both of them how bloody unlucky is that ,contaminated air brush I used two diffren airbrushes one of them brand new straight out of the box ,the thinners i used was the same as I always use ,the not new airbrush was cleaned and packed away after it previous use the same as always.
As mentioned above compressor was given a good going over and this morning the not new airbrush was stripped down and given a clean , no proper job pulled the lot apart.
Stay with me a minute please I dont moan about it dont like to mention it dont want any sympathy but I've bone on bone in both knee's (caused through my work whats all good fun when your young comes back to bite you)waiting for the worst one to be replaced first ,but over the last few months the associated arthritis that comes with it has made walking difficult at times plus years of compensating for one side then the other you forget how to walk properly touch wood the last couple of weeks have been OK considering I've kinda got the hang getting about semi normal ,right so wheres this going I hear you ask have I forgotten how to airbrush sounds daft BUT there might be a couple of sticks in the spokes here ,when using ammo paints I count drops from the bottle into the airbrush cup followed by drops of thinner from a pippet ie say six paint four thinner thinking now i used all my small pippets the ones I've got now you could preform a enema with em did I therefore go six paint and with the giant pippet were the four drops loads to much ,was it over thinned was I too close to what I was spraying also ive always thought the pressure thing on my compressor was a bit dodgy was there too much pressure ,too close was it perhaps not vaporising? Properly ,look let's cut the waffle as I said primed a old turret with one shot black to see if it was the aqueous surfacer that was causing the problems ,well started out with the pale dunkel gelb colour never thinned it as ammo designed to spray straight from the bottle mmmm very kind of almost grainy like it hade broken down ,does it go off its quite old but a few coats/passes built it up ,then cleaned out as usual and loaded up with some green seemed ok I think ,of course I'm bloody paranoid now ,then loaded up with some dark gelb thinned down slightly with 3rd gen acrylic thinners says its acrylic thinners so hey ho free handed some cammo type pattern


Went down nice and thin you can still see the blemishes through it from the pale gelb that cause the day

So kinda had to relearn it all again bit like riding a bike you don't forget but wobbly for a while.
Back to the pressure gauge thing ive nothing to compair with but let's just say I set it at 20lbs when I hold the trigger down the needle drops back to a constant 15-16lbs so is it running at that or the 20 the needle is set at ,I honestly hope before I ask one last question that I havent bored you all to death I do so appreciate you time and input ,right then that last question ,im sure some one can tell me but those moments when you let just a bit too much through the AB too close? paint too thin? airpressure too high? you end up with one of thoes swatted spidery jobbies see pic below

Wich if any of the above caused that or is it just sheer incompetence on be half of the user ,ok I hope ive come up for air now and can bash on next time without too much trepidation one hopes. I think I've managed to save the little carro but the spg is now a lost cause still it was fun to build plus I learnt a bit from it as well.
A hearty thanks to all for your input help advice and sympathy, using a airbrush isn't rocket science but whenhappens it turns into a horrible mind game.
Dave

 

[Miko]

,im sure some one can tell me but those moments when you let just a bit too much through the AB too close? paint too thin? airpressure too high? you end up with one of thoes swatted spidery jobbies see pic below

I'm relatively new to airbrushing too, I've taken advice from some of the best and watched a dozen or so YouTube tutorial videos but personal experience and technique doesn't always comply with what the clever people say, consistency works, develop a technique and stick with it, change one variable and it can affect three or four others, this makes it difficult to diagnose other modelers problems.

For what it's worth 20lbs pressureis too high but depends on needle size and spidering means too much thinner to me, AB too close? again, depends on pressure, if you are trying to get fine lines it's best to be in close but for coverage about 4'' (100mm) is good for me.

The last pics of your build look good to me, i'd be more than happy with that finish.

Miko (not sure I'm helping, but I am trying - as in trying to help and not trying as in causing strain hardship or distress! Ha!)

 

[David Lovell]

I'm relatively new to airbrushing too, I've taken advice from some of the best and watched a dozen or so YouTube tutorial videos but personal experience and technique doesn't always comply with what the clever people say, consistency works, develop a technique and stick with it, change one variable and it can affect three or four others, this makes it difficult to diagnose other modelers problems.

For what it's worth 20lbs pressureis too high but depends on needle size and spidering means too much thinner to me, AB too close? again, depends on pressure, if you are trying to get fine lines it's best to be in close but for coverage about 4'' (100mm) is good for me.

The last pics of your build look good to me, i'd be more than happy with that finish.

Miko (not sure I'm helping, but I am trying - as in trying to help and not trying as in causing strain hardship or distress! Ha!)

Hi Miko ,please don't feel offended im not exactly new to airbrushing have been a member here for close to six years now and a member of the old MM site for more than that I got back into the hobby about 18 years or so ago ,airbrushing is still a complete mystery even now but as I said I've always blagged my way with it always been confident when firing up the compressor ,yes I've lashed up a couple we've all done that but when the problem above happens and has never happened before after years of going through my own same routine same method same products and this happens its like hitting a brick wall so you turn to the many excellent folk here for help partly everyones reason for being here. I dont spray at twenty pounds I said "lets just say I set it at 20lbs" in fact untill this problem ive never touched the pressure knob just left it where I found it worked best for me ,you said it yourself develop a technique and stick with it ,did I do one little thing wrong that as you said changes three or four others further down the line. I think /hope that this is what happened fingers crossed if nothing else ive now got a very clean airbrush as mentioned at the top im a modeling slob the most that airbrush has ever had (and thats all of my air brushes )when it comes to cleaning is the needle pulled out the back wiped and put back. Thanks for your thoughts and input your first paragraph covers a lot of truths. Looking forward to you showing some of your work welcome to the best pub in the country well it would be if it was a pub im sure you know what I mean. Dave

 

[JR]

Nice one Dave.
I think it's one of those things that you either take to like a duck to water, or just hope it will be OK.
Considering the amount of variables to consider from air pressure, thinners, paint, flow improver bats blood and distance from the intended victim it's a wonder that anyone produces anything .

 

[Tim Marlow]

I always think there are so many variables that every modeller actually airbrushes differently to everyone else John. Despite this, we almost always get acceptable results. If you gave ten of us the same model, the same paints, airbrush, and compressor we would all use them slightly differently, but would all eventually paint the model. This shows the process is extremely robust and all you need to do is play with the train set until it does what you want…..

 

[David Lovell]

Nice one Dave.
I think it's one of those things that you either take to like a duck to water, or just hope it will be OK.
Considering the amount of variables to consider from air pressure, thinners, paint, flow improver bats blood and distance from the intended victim it's a wonder that anyone produces anything .

I always think there are so many variables that every modeller actually airbrushes differently to everyone else John. Despite this, we almost always get acceptable results. If you gave ten of us the same model, the same paints, airbrush, and compressor we would all use them slightly differently, but would all eventually paint the model. This shows the process is extremely robust and all you need to do is play with the train set until it does what you want…..

Thanks guys as I said I've always blagged it my way ,wich as you've both pointed out almost every one does it their way but they wouldn't say they blagged it ,not saying I know what I'm doing but I dont think my end results are bad ,but after years of getting away with it what happened was well soul destroying but thanks to everybodys calm response I hope ive managed to keep the toys in the pram though I must admit the dummy came close to being spat out. Next build priming session will be taken with some trepidation but will have to be approached with my old confidence. Dave

 

[Miko]

Hi Miko ,please don't feel offended im not exactly new to airbrushing have been a member here for close to six years now and a member of the old MM site for more

Ooops! Sorry, I clearly misunderstood! I've been hanging out in online forums since the original Airfix forum maybe twenty years ago, but not MM which I always thought was an AFV forum? I was a 'traditional' modeler building mostly classic Airfix with Humbrol paints applied with a brush. It's only in the last couple of years I've discovered the delights of Japanese lacquers and acrylics applied with an airbrush

Do you think maybe your problem could be a damaged needle tip? doesn't take much and you'd need a microscope to check?

Miko (you'd like to see my airbrushing? . . . . hang on. . . . . )

 

[Tim Marlow]

I think what I’m saying is that it’s an art, not a science, so blagging it is the best way to go Dave. All that experience gives you is the ability to blag it successfully.

 

[Miko]

I think what I’m saying is that it’s an art, not a science,

Excellent point well put!

You have to feel your way with an airbrush intuitively through experience, other than basic principals airbrushing can't be taught but has to be learned

Miko (a bit Zen today)

 

[Richard48]

Sounds a right connundrum.Dave.I can hang my head in shame that although ive made kits for years im guilty of hardly ever finishing anything.For years i amassed a fair few kits to end up languishing in parents loft.I worked 6 days a week for Royal mail for 24 years and fatigue stopped me modelling.
Back then i used a Badger 200 single action with Humbrol enamels.I sold most my stash when i met my wife but built a stash back up to around 100 kits.Last year i made and finished 6 1.72nd kits only.I have had an Aztec airbrush set since mid 2000s only used once!!!!!!.Ive never ever sprayed acrylics ever and have a few bottles of mig and Tamiya plus thinners etc.

Sadly we live in a poky flat with nowhere comfy for me to airbrush as we have pets.I usually end up spraying primer from a can downstairs in alley and handpaint.Do wonder if i should sell most my stash as i never finish stuff.At least you have a go mate.Ive never used a double action airbrush.At a push i could handpaint but never get a top finish and camo is a no no.
Such a minefield of sooo many paint ranges now!!!,Some swear by Tamiya.Then theres the new Atom range.Beginners must have a nightmare when they start out.
All the best from Rich

 

[David Lovell]

Sounds a right connundrum.Dave.I can hang my head in shame that although ive made kits for years im guilty of hardly ever finishing anything.For years i amassed a fair few kits to end up languishing in parents loft.I worked 6 days a week for Royal mail for 24 years and fatigue stopped me modelling.
Back then i used a Badger 200 single action with Humbrol enamels.I sold most my stash when i met my wife but built a stash back up to around 100 kits.Last year i made and finished 6 1.72nd kits only.I have had an Aztec airbrush set since mid 2000s only used once!!!!!!.Ive never ever sprayed acrylics ever and have a few bottles of mig and Tamiya plus thinners etc.

Sadly we live in a poky flat with nowhere comfy for me to airbrush as we have pets.I usually end up spraying primer from a can downstairs in alley and handpaint.Do wonder if i should sell most my stash as i never finish stuff.At least you have a go mate.Ive never used a double action airbrush.At a push i could handpaint but never get a top finish and camo is a no no.
Such a minefield of sooo many paint ranges now!!!,Some swear by Tamiya.Then theres the new Atom range.Beginners must have a nightmare when they start out.
All the best from Rich

Hi Rich suppose I'm lucky I use the dining room gave up lacquer paints because of the smell never had a problem with acrylics up until then ,bless the other half as long as it doesn't get to ugly in there apart from the odd occasion ie friends for a meal girls night meal oh and the Christmas period I get left alone. Depends on what you consider a finished model ive quite a few that haven't been painted just put in tupper ware type boxes don't think I ever wanted to paint them just got max enjoyment in building them. Iknow you've got a intrest in 72nd armour a great scale for brush painting as for paints tamiya is bit of a no go with the brush but from what I’ve gleaned on YouTube the new atom paints are designed with airbush/paint brush in mind they seem to go down well with a brush. Whats wrong with only making six kits in a year you can only devote time available I quite often go for periods where I dont touch what I'm doing ive learnt only to to bench up because I want to not because I feel I need to.Dave

 

[Scratchbuilder]

Bummer thing is Mike I've done nothing diffrent from what I've done for absolute ages , I've found a old turret and primed it with one shot so tomoz morning ill go again at least it will show if its the primer till then were have to hang in there. Cheers buddy Dave

Dave, done exactly the same and still had a problem, then back to a strip down clean and everything was ok, so still a mystery...

 

[Richard48]

Hi Rich suppose I'm lucky I use the dining room gave up lacquer paints because of the smell never had a problem with acrylics up until then ,bless the other half as long as it doesn't get to ugly in there apart from the odd occasion ie friends for a meal girls night meal oh and the Christmas period I get left alone. Depends on what you consider a finished model ive quite a few that haven't been painted just put in tupper ware type boxes don't think I ever wanted to paint them just got max enjoyment in building them. Iknow you've got a intrest in 72nd armour a great scale for brush painting as for paints tamiya is bit of a no go with the brush but from what I’ve gleaned on YouTube the new atom paints are designed with airbush/paint brush in mind they seem to go down well with a brush. Whats wrong with only making six kits in a year you can only devote time available I quite often go for periods where I dont touch what I'm doing ive learnt only to to bench up because I want to not because I feel I need to.Dave

Howdy Dave.Been a naughty boy and bought some more 72nd kits.First to fight 251 A,Polish artlilery tractor,Zvezda 1.100th Cruiser tank and just arrived an S models Vickers light tank Vb!!.Do like these little beggars.Think 72nd is my domain for time being.I stocked up on Heller 72nd Shermans when they were a tenner on Amazon.Think ive got 9 0r 10 m4s and M4a2s.
Rich