I'm way too old and nowhere near intelligent enough to cope with this sort of stuff, but it is fascinating to see the directions that modelling is going. Please keep posting.
The venerable Bentley Blower in 1/12th
- Thread starter nickedw
- Start date
Thanks for all the kind comments and support everyone - I’ll be 60 myself next year so not a great believer in the ’too old’ stuff, I got an 84 year old guy up and running quite happily in fusion 360 CAD not very long ago
you can learn pretty much anything you want these days from the web. Linked in learning is your friend.
I didn’t know any CAD about 3 years ago and picked it up in 4 weeks.
I hadn’t done any CAM 3 weeks ago either, although I’ve got a long way to go there!
Airborne01
SMF Supporter
File downloads will never replace box and sprue in my mind,I'm no Luddite but it just doesn't interest me. Just because it's new technology doesn't necessarily mean it's 'better,' not all people want to faff around with printers etc - some just want to (for example) load up a brush ... I'm not in any way decrying the tech (most of it is stunning!) but frequently it requires a mindset that not all modellers espouse. For instance. I love writing letters and sending cards instead of emails and Moonpig! Sorry ...Dear Nick,
I see you are pulling the "big pencil" trick again....
It's amazing how new technologies boost the evolution of our hobby, but they require a fully new batch of skillsand a certain amount of geld too.
I hope to see more of your works and that finely detailed 3D printing will become less costly soon.
When this will happen, files downloads will replace those boxes filled with plastic sprues... I'll miss the cover art, though.
Steve
Sorry to say Steve, that if you like it or not, it’s coming, and it will come faster than you think. people had similar arguments about digital cameras, and they dominated the world in very short order.
The production of resin aftermarket stuff is an example. Printing will replace resin as a manufacturing tool in a few years. It makes absolute sense for small manufacturers to design items digitally and then print items as they are ordered. Keeping stock is expensive, both in time and in materials, and production on demand minimises waste.
In the field of model figures, especially small scale stuff, this technology is already making inroads into the traditional cast or injection moulded product lines. One well established figure manufacturer already lists print files alongside its traditional injection moulded products.
Have a look at this….it’s probably the future…..but probably not in this format….
faller-create.de
Faller are very much a mainstream model railway company, and this is where they seem to be going.
There is another company (cant remember their name) that will take a 3D scan of you and produce a wargames figure using your likeness so you can lead your own army……
The business model hasn’t yet settled down, but it will as the technology becomes mainstream rather than hobby niche.
The production of resin aftermarket stuff is an example. Printing will replace resin as a manufacturing tool in a few years. It makes absolute sense for small manufacturers to design items digitally and then print items as they are ordered. Keeping stock is expensive, both in time and in materials, and production on demand minimises waste.
In the field of model figures, especially small scale stuff, this technology is already making inroads into the traditional cast or injection moulded product lines. One well established figure manufacturer already lists print files alongside its traditional injection moulded products.
Have a look at this….it’s probably the future…..but probably not in this format….
FALLER CREATE – I want it. I do it.
faller-create.de
Faller are very much a mainstream model railway company, and this is where they seem to be going.
There is another company (cant remember their name) that will take a 3D scan of you and produce a wargames figure using your likeness so you can lead your own army……
The business model hasn’t yet settled down, but it will as the technology becomes mainstream rather than hobby niche.
boatman
SMF Supporter
WELL Guys thinkin this through i aggree with Steve an i'll proberly get shot for this from you guys esp the guys who have bad aritise in their hands but yes this cad thing is great but here we go i dont think its modeling as such as the machine is doin all the building an not the moddeler like i like to scratchbuild the part that i need an not just let the machine do it Aaaaaaccchhh there ive said it now so all feel free to have your say
Not disagreeing there at all Chris. I wasn’t disagreeing with Steve either, just pointing out where it will all possibly go……
Probably worth a thread in its own right though, not just as a digression on Nicks excellent blower thread. After all, taking a bit of an old kit like that and using your skills to make it into a truly excellent scale model……..that’s real modelling alright, no matter what techniques you use
Airborne01
SMF Supporter
I actually agree with you Tim in that, like it or not, it is starting and will happen; fortunately I think there will also be a place for 'traditionally produced' models (just look at the market for 'lead' soldiers for example), It is certainly the way of the future and I do think it will be a major influence on the hobby. I am looking at buying some printed German tool clamps purely because of the 3D finesse of them and the fact I hate PE! I am watching the development with interest and, who knows, in a year or two I may well be tempted by a printed figure or bust! Thanks for your very reasoned argument!Sorry to say Steve, that if you like it or not, it’s coming, and it will come faster than you think. people had similar arguments about digital cameras, and they dominated the world in very short order.
The production of resin aftermarket stuff is an example. Printing will replace resin as a manufacturing tool in a few years. It makes absolute sense for small manufacturers to design items digitally and then print items as they are ordered. Keeping stock is expensive, both in time and in materials, and production on demand minimises waste.
In the field of model figures, especially small scale stuff, this technology is already making inroads into the traditional cast or injection moulded product lines. One well established figure manufacturer already lists print files alongside its traditional injection moulded products.
Have a look at this….it’s probably the future…..but probably not in this format….
FALLER CREATE – I want it. I do it.
Faller are very much a mainstream model railway company, and this is where they seem to be going.
There is another company (cant remember their name) that will take a 3D scan of you and produce a wargames figure using your likeness so you can lead your own army……
The business model hasn’t yet settled down, but it will as the technology becomes mainstream rather than hobby niche.
Steve
Jim R
SMF Supporter
I do find this stuff interesting, Nick, even if it all goes over my head.
Airborne01
SMF Supporter
Nick, your work is stunning; my apologies for 'hijacking'your excellent thread - completely unintentional!Thanks for all the kind comments and support everyone - I’ll be 60 myself next year so not a great believer in the ’too old’ stuff, I got an 84 year old guy up and running quite happily in fusion 360 CAD not very long ago
you can learn pretty much anything you want these days from the web. Linked in learning is your friend.
I didn’t know any CAD about 3 years ago and picked it up in 4 weeks.
I hadn’t done any CAM 3 weeks ago either, although I’ve got a long way to go there!
Steve
boatman
SMF Supporter
yes i aggree Tim an YES Jim it is to me also but on another site a chap was building a type 42 destroyer in a big scale an he had a bridge made up by cad an yes it was excellent in every aspect but he dint build it the machine did but if he is happy then all good an well but my point is in the future if everyone uses a cad machine to make their models then the art of scratbuilding by hand will be lost forever if you all see what i mean an no offence ment to anyone if they are usein cad but just my thoughts on the subject SORRY Nick an same from me dint mean to hijack your thread like steve has said
chrisb
I take your point, but I think you are overlooking the fact that I drew all this stuff in the first place in CAD which actually requires far more research and effort than scratch building.
Why? You can 'guess' in scratch building, and have some sort of physical object to start with. You don't in CAD and have to account for every surface or it just won't work.
To get an apprecation of this here is my CAD work for my F40 engine. This took about 4,000 photos from a guy in Belgium who had one disassembled and could not have been more helpful.
I didn't record my CAD hours, but it's in the hundreds.
Click this and you well get an idea of what goes into it:- F40 CAD Drawing
( click + Drag to rotate, scroll wheel to zoom if you're unfamiliar with 3D stuff)
You might be surprised to learn that I broadly agree with you, and have little time for the guys that google an stl file and then just press print.
I was scratch building stuff before all this so I can do both, infact that is what led me to it.
I just know I can achieve far more (and make it repeatable) with these technologies, yes its a different skill set, I wouldn't say it was easier though.
It's just another (extremely powerful IMHO) tool. If you choose not to use it that's fine and up to you.
Some people won't use an airbrush.
Same thing.
Happy to have the thread hijacked BTW this is a discussion that needs to be had I think
Nick
Not sure where this discussion is going to be honest, but it’s no less interesting for that.
The design and printing you are doing Nick seems to me to be an exercise in producing your own “kit” to your own specification. To me, that’s pretty much the definition of scratchbuilding. After all, a kit is just a set of parts that are assembled to produce a physical object, and scratchbuilding is the process by which the parts are generated.
The difference between your approach and Chris’ approach is just in the tools and materials used to produce the end result. The ethos of producing a miniature object that satisfies you using techniques that you are comfortable with is the same in both cases.
Disclaimer…..what follows is more my opinion of myself, not my opinion of anyone else….it is not supposed to criticise or denigrate anyone that posts on the forum.
A different question is “what is modelling”? Most of what I post is the painting of miniature figures. Though there is some rudimentary assembly required, it’s mostly an exercise is painting. Personally I’m not sure that’s really “modelling” in the true sense. Doesn’t stop me enjoying it, but does it make me a modeller? I was a serious scratch builder up to about twenty years ago, producing railway stock and buildings from basic flat material stock (plastic and metal), so I’m happy to be thought of as a modeller. However, the continuous search for improvements in my technique drained the enjoyment from the hobby, so I took a hiatus for a few years. Since I came back to it I’ve changed my focus and subject, mostly building “out of the box”, putting more effort into finishing than into the pure detail of the build itself. To me, that makes me more of an assembler than a modeller though……but as I’m someone that doesn’t really care about labels I’m not worried as long as I enjoy the process.
The design and printing you are doing Nick seems to me to be an exercise in producing your own “kit” to your own specification. To me, that’s pretty much the definition of scratchbuilding. After all, a kit is just a set of parts that are assembled to produce a physical object, and scratchbuilding is the process by which the parts are generated.
The difference between your approach and Chris’ approach is just in the tools and materials used to produce the end result. The ethos of producing a miniature object that satisfies you using techniques that you are comfortable with is the same in both cases.
Disclaimer…..what follows is more my opinion of myself, not my opinion of anyone else….it is not supposed to criticise or denigrate anyone that posts on the forum.
A different question is “what is modelling”? Most of what I post is the painting of miniature figures. Though there is some rudimentary assembly required, it’s mostly an exercise is painting. Personally I’m not sure that’s really “modelling” in the true sense. Doesn’t stop me enjoying it, but does it make me a modeller? I was a serious scratch builder up to about twenty years ago, producing railway stock and buildings from basic flat material stock (plastic and metal), so I’m happy to be thought of as a modeller. However, the continuous search for improvements in my technique drained the enjoyment from the hobby, so I took a hiatus for a few years. Since I came back to it I’ve changed my focus and subject, mostly building “out of the box”, putting more effort into finishing than into the pure detail of the build itself. To me, that makes me more of an assembler than a modeller though……but as I’m someone that doesn’t really care about labels I’m not worried as long as I enjoy the process.
boatman
SMF Supporter
ANYWAY Nick carry on Sir with you brilliant models for us to enjoy
chrisb
chrisb
Neil Merryweather
SMF Supporter
I have to agree (no surprise) with Nick's post above., although obviously I am already converted to the church of CAD.
Since learning my CAD skills (which took me a LONG time, unlike Nick) I have found it no less satisfying to build things virtually than I do to make things physically. But I do like the fact that I can reproduce them and in different scales, which I obviously can't with building a thing physically.
I imagine there must have been some carpenters back in the day who said "Oh I don't hold with this electrical trickery circular saw malarkey -it takes all the pleasure out of cutting a straight line".
This just a new tool. The same with the laser cutter and CAM.
I enjoy the researching and estimating measurements from pics on the internet, it's just I am creating my model in virtual 3 dimensions to start with in the same way I would have made myself a 2D drawing before CAD.
My two penn'orth!
Since learning my CAD skills (which took me a LONG time, unlike Nick) I have found it no less satisfying to build things virtually than I do to make things physically. But I do like the fact that I can reproduce them and in different scales, which I obviously can't with building a thing physically.
I imagine there must have been some carpenters back in the day who said "Oh I don't hold with this electrical trickery circular saw malarkey -it takes all the pleasure out of cutting a straight line".
This just a new tool. The same with the laser cutter and CAM.
I enjoy the researching and estimating measurements from pics on the internet, it's just I am creating my model in virtual 3 dimensions to start with in the same way I would have made myself a 2D drawing before CAD.
My two penn'orth!
What's the betting you could find very similar discussions from 60 - 70 years ago when airplane modellers started switching from balsa and tissue to ready-made plastic kits? And years before that when traditional wood carvers switched to ready-cut sheets and strips. It may well have started when flint knappers started moaning about these new-fangled metals.
Like Tim, I don't think it matters how we end up with our finished models. It's our own hobby to pursue as we like, whether we use traditional tools and materials or state-of-the-art manufacturing processes, but it's still nice to see how the other guy does it.
Like Tim, I don't think it matters how we end up with our finished models. It's our own hobby to pursue as we like, whether we use traditional tools and materials or state-of-the-art manufacturing processes, but it's still nice to see how the other guy does it.
If anyone would like to see it (after all that! ), here is the CAD drawing I'm still working on for the Bentley Engine :- Bentley Blower CAD
), here is the CAD drawing I'm still working on for the Bentley Engine :- Bentley Blower CAD
boatman
SMF Supporter
WELL Nick had a look an glad you know whats what an i hope you are enjoyin it but TBH its way over my head as gettin an ole codger now an dont understand things as i have a job even workin my p/c out but i'll watch you as you go to try an understand what you are doin enjoy your self on this wonderfull forum
ATB to you Sir
chrisb
ATB to you Sir
chrisb
Very nice work Nick.If anyone would like to see it (after all that!
Here’s some updates on the Bentley,
I’ve decided to tackle the 30 gallon Le Mans petrol tank next. I’ve opted to draw from scratch and print the mesh for various reasons, insanity being one of them. I did stumble trying to curve a ‘sheet’ of mesh in fusion 360, but tackled it a different way in the end.
Currently I’m planning on CNC cutting thin ali to make the tank sides and wrap around, formed and held by the 3D printed sides/mesh. Watch this space, I just need to finish off the fuel filler and the CAD is done.
Finally a quick render of the latest CAD drawing
And here’s a picture of a real one for good measure
Thanks for looking
Nick
I’ve decided to tackle the 30 gallon Le Mans petrol tank next. I’ve opted to draw from scratch and print the mesh for various reasons, insanity being one of them. I did stumble trying to curve a ‘sheet’ of mesh in fusion 360, but tackled it a different way in the end.
Currently I’m planning on CNC cutting thin ali to make the tank sides and wrap around, formed and held by the 3D printed sides/mesh. Watch this space, I just need to finish off the fuel filler and the CAD is done.
Finally a quick render of the latest CAD drawing
And here’s a picture of a real one for good measure
Thanks for looking
Nick
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Just magic to my old eyes.