1/48 ME-109 E3 and FW-190 A8 build

[-tmm-]

Following on from my intro post, my next two builds are 1/48 scale 109 and 190 by Tamiya. Originally I was going to make the 190 first but having realised I was short of paint I decided to make them in tandem - and do what I can until the new paint arrives.

So far I have got the cockpits/fuselage/wings all together. The ME-109 is painted in it's primary colour, though I'll be asking opinions when I put the pics up, as it looks a bit dubious to me.

Photos of boxes attached.

Chris

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[-tmm-]

Pics of FW-190 cockpit (Eduard Zoom detailing) and engine - my phone doesnt like taking pics so close up

Body and wings put together, awaiting paints to continue.

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[Dave W]

Good choice of kits Chris.I made that 109 kit a few years ago.A good kit as i remember.All i added were some photo etched seat belts as it didnt need anything else.

 

[-tmm-]

Here is the progress so far on the 109. Cockpit done (Eduard zoom again), body/wings put together.

I would like opinions on the grey/blue paint I have used. This will be the underside/primary fuselage colour. I was impatient waiting for the new paints to arrive, so I tried to mix my own. According to the guide it should be RLM65 (RLM x2 + White x1) - Not having any RLM paint, I mixed my own (using dark grey, flat black and a touch of blue).

The overall effect looks like I overdid the blue a bit? I'm not sure 100% what its supposed to look like, so opinions are welcome. I dont mind repainting it if I need to.

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[msm2]

I built the 109 last year as my return to modelling.View attachment 30618

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[-tmm-]

I built the 109 last year as my return to modelling.

That's stunning, good job.

Did you get the swastika decal separately? I only just noticed that neither of these models have them on the sheet.

 

[msm2]

They were on the sheet.

 

[stona]

I would like opinions on the grey/blue paint I have used. This will be the underside/primary fuselage colour. The overall effect looks like I overdid the blue a bit? I'm not sure 100% what its supposed to look like, so opinions are welcome. I dont mind repainting it if I need to.

I think I am qualified to venture an opinion on this as I've made a lot of Luftwaffe subjects and made a bit of a study of the original colours.

I'd say you've got that colour just about spot on. RLM65 is really quite a blue colour,the later RLM76 was much greyer. Given the vagaries of cameras and computer monitors yours looks very good,particularly in that last picture.

Genuine colour images from early in the war are not common. This first one is a still from a colour film,definitely genuine.

This one is from a well known series,in colour,also genuine.

This last one looks okay but I have a suspicion that it may be colourised. I've not seen an original black and white image which is usually a give away so.....

Remember the variables already mentioned,not to forget that the ones we know are genuine are reproduced from seventy year old Agfa film. All good reasons not to get too tied up in trying to match exactly something we can't be absolutely sure about.

Keep up the good work,you've got two of my favourite airplanes on the go there.

Cheers

Steve

 

[-tmm-]

Thanks Steve,

The pics show the paint to be a touch more blue than it actually is, but it's good to know that I'm not far off. By luck more than by judgement I think.

New paints should arrive today, so I should be able to get a bit more done in the next couple of days.

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Chris, I've come across similar discussions regarding U-Boat colour schemes and the more enlightened seem to be of the impression that there are so many unknowns that it would be ridiculous to say that something is wrong. Even the same paint applied to two similar aircraft will end up looking different after a few months of combat and heavy weathering and bleaching at the front so the exact shade is never really known. From my own experiments with an Airfix 1/24th 109 many moons ago yours looks spot on to me.

 

[stona]

And I absolutely agree with Richard's comment above. All my models have slightly different shades on them because I mix or lighten colours by eye,not science!

Cheers

Steve

 

[-tmm-]

Probably about time I update this, though in truth I haven't managed to get much done. Got the painting done on the 109, though it needs a bit of tidying up. Had a couple of areas around the nose that ran under the mask, so I need to mix up some more blue - which I'm putting off as I know I won be able to match the colours lol. Also forgot to mask the front flappy bits (what are they actually called??) so I need to fix that too.

Hopefully it should be finished at the weekend.

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[stona]

Looking good there.

The "front flappy bits" are the leading edge slats. These deployed automatically at low air speeds and provided extra lift. Unlike modern airplanes,many of which have this feature, they were not powered in any way. It was customary for ground crew to push the slats up (in) once an aircraft was parked in order to avoid any debris or foreign objects getting in to the runner assembly.

If you want to pose yours deployed then the colour in the area revealed would either be the primer RLM 02 or the camouflage colours. My default,without good evidence to the contrary,is RLM 02 but not everyone agrees on this.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Dave W]

I wouldnt worry about touching up the blue with a different shade unless you want a factory fresh look.Aircraft were touched up in the field with whatever was available.We still do it today.Just had a skin repair painted on the fuselage of a TNT Boeing 757.Our paint shop didnt have the exact spec orange.So i got them to mix up a similar colour.

 

[-tmm-]

Cheers for that Steve.

The 'destructions' implied that the revealed area under the front flappy bits (better name than leading edge slats I think) should be RLM65 the same as the underside/fuselage. Primer colour would make more sense though.

Chris

 

[stona]

That theory stems from a famous piece of colour film,very early,the upper camouflage is still 70/71. In the film a mechanic fits a slat and the underside (inside) colour OF THE SLAT is arguably RLM 65.

I've looked at a lot of photos of Bf109s throughout the war,in the vast majority the area beneath the slat is not visible,partly because the crews tended to push them back in,partly because upper wing surfaces are rarely see in photographs taken by a person of normal height. Luckily for us the Luftwaffe quite often took pictures of aircraft they had managed to crash,and we took photos of the ones we shot down. Because these are either stood on their noses or lie on their bellies (assuming the crash wasn't the type that left a smoking hole in the ground) and because the slats have often deployed that area is visible. It is usually in RLM 02 or the camouflage colour. I'm not saying RLM 65 is impossible,nothing is,just that the weight of evidence supports one of the other options better.

Cheers

Steve

 

[-tmm-]

I wouldnt worry about touching up the blue with a different shade unless you want a factory fresh look.Aircraft were touched up in the field with whatever was available.We still do it today.Just had a skin repair painted on the fuselage of a TNT Boeing 757.Our paint shop didnt have the exact spec orange.So i got them to mix up a similar colour.

Thanks Dave. I think the areas affected are small enough they shouldn't notice if I dont get quite the right shade. My current skill level means I know 100% that I'll mess it up if I try to use weathering to hide it - so a factory finish is what I'm going for at this stage.

I do plan to buy a couple of cheap kits to practice some weathering techniques, only i know once I'm 90% of the way there I'll be reluctant to potentially spoil even my test kits. doh!

 

[-tmm-]

That theory stems from a famous piece of colour film,very early,the upper camouflage is still 70/71. In the film a mechanic fits a slat and the underside (inside) colour OF THE SLAT is arguably RLM 65. I've looked at a lot of photos of Bf109s throughout the war,in the vast majority the area beneath the slat is not visible,partly because the crews tended to push them back in,partly because upper wing surfaces are rarely see in photographs taken by a person of normal height. Luckily for us the Luftwaffe quite often took pictures of aircraft they had managed to crash,and we took photos of the ones we shot down. Because these are either stood on their noses or lie on their bellies (assuming the crash wasn't the type that left a smoking hole in the ground) and because the slats have often deployed that area is visible. It is usually in RLM 02 or the camouflage colour. I'm not saying RLM 65 is impossible,nothing is,just that the weight of evidence supports one of the other options better.

Cheers

Steve

I'm convinced. RLM02 it is.

 

[msm2]

This is one I did many months ago.

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[stona]

Very nice Tony. I usually cheat and pose the slats up :razz:....on the grounds that they were most often (but by no means always) left that way.

Cheers

Steve