S
Hi welcome to the forum, you have come to the right place...... it would be a good idea to put your name in the details so we know what to call you!!
For paints I would suggest Vallejo Model Air for the airbrush simply because they have been developed for an a/b and you will not necessarily have to thin them. That said it does depend on a number of other factors and some thinning may be necessary depending on things like needle size/air pressure/humidity etc. There are effects for which you will want thinner paint as well. Overall though you should find Vallejo acrylics a good starting point and they have a good range (available from the shop associated with this site).
You should read through posts on the forum under painting and weathering to get tips on how to use an airbrush but the real secret is to practise. It does take some patience and a fair bit of practise to get the hang of it but it is well worth it.
For an airbrush you might want to start out with a cheap Chinese 'knock-off' before getting something better. which was what I did. I also suggest splashing out of a compressor as using canned air gets expensive over time. My compressor is an AS186 and has done good service now for nearly 3 years and is very cheap. You can get these quite cheaply. http://www.everythingairbrush.com/compressors/ab-as186-mini-piston-type-0n-demand-compressor-with-receiver-for-airbrushing.html
The above can be obtained in a set with a cheap airbrush.
In respect of an airbrush:
I suggest a gravity feed as being most suitable for modelling rather than syphon fed from a bottle under the a/b, double action as well.
I also suggest a needle size of 0.35 or 0.4 as most appropriate.
Air pressure - I spray mostly at about 25psi but sometimes turn down the pressure to 15psi for some jobs or up to 30psi. I never spray higher than that.
I use a Harder & Steenbeck Evo but John at Scale Modelshop has some Iwata Neo's that are apparently a good lower cost option (but a bit more than the Chinese knock-offs).
I hope that helps. I am sure others will say more - remember when you get a set-up practise and practise.....
For paints I would suggest Vallejo Model Air for the airbrush simply because they have been developed for an a/b and you will not necessarily have to thin them. That said it does depend on a number of other factors and some thinning may be necessary depending on things like needle size/air pressure/humidity etc. There are effects for which you will want thinner paint as well. Overall though you should find Vallejo acrylics a good starting point and they have a good range (available from the shop associated with this site).
You should read through posts on the forum under painting and weathering to get tips on how to use an airbrush but the real secret is to practise. It does take some patience and a fair bit of practise to get the hang of it but it is well worth it.
For an airbrush you might want to start out with a cheap Chinese 'knock-off' before getting something better. which was what I did. I also suggest splashing out of a compressor as using canned air gets expensive over time. My compressor is an AS186 and has done good service now for nearly 3 years and is very cheap. You can get these quite cheaply. http://www.everythingairbrush.com/compressors/ab-as186-mini-piston-type-0n-demand-compressor-with-receiver-for-airbrushing.html
The above can be obtained in a set with a cheap airbrush.
In respect of an airbrush:
I suggest a gravity feed as being most suitable for modelling rather than syphon fed from a bottle under the a/b, double action as well.
I also suggest a needle size of 0.35 or 0.4 as most appropriate.
Air pressure - I spray mostly at about 25psi but sometimes turn down the pressure to 15psi for some jobs or up to 30psi. I never spray higher than that.
I use a Harder & Steenbeck Evo but John at Scale Modelshop has some Iwata Neo's that are apparently a good lower cost option (but a bit more than the Chinese knock-offs).
I hope that helps. I am sure others will say more - remember when you get a set-up practise and practise.....
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A
Airfix Modeller Freak
Guest
Hi mate, firstly welcome to the forum and I'm from Australia as well. YAY!
Secondly, could you please tell us what AB you have and lastly, as my recommendation, choose the Gunze sangyo (Mr Hobby) aqueous colours. It thins well with cellulose thinner or Tamiya X-20A. It is a great paint which has a smooth finish when airbrushed. Also, if you can afford it, after you get the MR hobby stuff, try using tamiya's paints. It is great stuff, but I personally think Mr hobby is better. Vallejo is also a good paint, but a bit expensive here in Australia.
In terms of Airbrushes, I use an Iwata neo. I got it off ebay at a great price (70 dollars australian including poastage). For Natural metal finishes or metallic finishes use alclad. Please DO NOT think that it is tricky stuff to use. It isn't! Some modellers treat it like a dark art, but it really isn't. It is one of the easiest finishes to use with an AB. If you have problems with it, ask around here and you willl get tons of friendly advice. Also, please tell us your christian name so we do not need to call you by your username.
John
Secondly, could you please tell us what AB you have and lastly, as my recommendation, choose the Gunze sangyo (Mr Hobby) aqueous colours. It thins well with cellulose thinner or Tamiya X-20A. It is a great paint which has a smooth finish when airbrushed. Also, if you can afford it, after you get the MR hobby stuff, try using tamiya's paints. It is great stuff, but I personally think Mr hobby is better. Vallejo is also a good paint, but a bit expensive here in Australia.
In terms of Airbrushes, I use an Iwata neo. I got it off ebay at a great price (70 dollars australian including poastage). For Natural metal finishes or metallic finishes use alclad. Please DO NOT think that it is tricky stuff to use. It isn't! Some modellers treat it like a dark art, but it really isn't. It is one of the easiest finishes to use with an AB. If you have problems with it, ask around here and you willl get tons of friendly advice. Also, please tell us your christian name so we do not need to call you by your username.
John
stona
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I reckon that's all pretty good advice above, not much to add.
Whatever set up you do invest in there really is no substitute for practice. It's not like learning to play the piano
You just need to play about with your airbrush, compressor, paints and thinners to work out what works for you. Do not be afraid of upping the pressure. Once you find what works you should be able to use those 'settings' to do any sort of spraying.
Good luck and you'll always get some friendly advice here. Don't forget to have fun with your model making.
Cheers
Steve
Whatever set up you do invest in there really is no substitute for practice. It's not like learning to play the piano
You just need to play about with your airbrush, compressor, paints and thinners to work out what works for you. Do not be afraid of upping the pressure. Once you find what works you should be able to use those 'settings' to do any sort of spraying.Good luck and you'll always get some friendly advice here. Don't forget to have fun with your model making.
Cheers
Steve
tanktrack
SMF Supporter
hi welcome to the site your choice of paint is like your airbrush -down to personal viewpoint , I use Vallejo as they are readily available , i tend to thin my Vallejo air paint as well as the Vallejo colour just to get it through the brush , Tamiya are good paints but slightly thicker than the Vallejo , as your fellow country man John says you may just have to try what you can afford and what is about locally .
3 points of advice I would give are 1 practice practice
2 know you brush ie be able to strip it and clean it - you usually get a picture of the brake down
3 always use a branded cleaner/thinner for the type of paint you are using , it saves trouble in the long run ,you can use water/screenwahes to clean airbrushes but the brand for brand works for me .
give it a go and enjoy it .
3 points of advice I would give are 1 practice practice
2 know you brush ie be able to strip it and clean it - you usually get a picture of the brake down
3 always use a branded cleaner/thinner for the type of paint you are using , it saves trouble in the long run ,you can use water/screenwahes to clean airbrushes but the brand for brand works for me .
give it a go and enjoy it .
L
Laurie
Guest
Very fine advice here.
Just add an extra. Stuff that comes out of your airbrush will also atomize into the air which you will breath in.
Vallejo Model Air is non toxic a lot of other paints are not including a number of the Vallejo Model paints. So best thing is to buy a good nose mask. The type with a removable filter. Good manufacturers type cast different filters for different mixtures solvents etc.
Even with non toxic the paint and solvents still penetrate into the lungs. Very nasty.
Laurie
Just add an extra. Stuff that comes out of your airbrush will also atomize into the air which you will breath in.
Vallejo Model Air is non toxic a lot of other paints are not including a number of the Vallejo Model paints. So best thing is to buy a good nose mask. The type with a removable filter. Good manufacturers type cast different filters for different mixtures solvents etc.
Even with non toxic the paint and solvents still penetrate into the lungs. Very nasty.
Laurie
D
Deleted member 3568
Guest
All good advice and I have nothing else to add other than hello and welcome to the friendliest forum on the Internet.
hello and welcome, whats been said is great advice and helped me alot,
and nice to see another Australia, hear ,very friendly and great guys who are very helpful :D
and nice to see another Australia, hear ,very friendly and great guys who are very helpful :D
S
Stevekir
Guest
I'm confused. I didn't think that an aqueous paint could be thinned by using cellulose thinner, but I might be wrong.\ said:
As for advice on airbrushing, I found it didn't go well at first: sputtering, blockages, uneven coat. But, in some miraculous way that I have noticed in other manual crafts, it came alright after a couple of months of practice. Fo beginners, water-based (aqueous) paints are easier to use than enamels and lacquers because the airbrush can be cleaned with water whereas the other types of paint need a smelly and sometimes hazardous solvent.
Hold the airbrush about 4 inches from the part and practice, practice, practice. After every session partly disassemble the airbrush (nozzle, aircap, needle) and clean with airbrush cleaner, to avoid blockages. An airbrush gives wonderfully smooth finishes, although skilled modellers using a brush can get very good results. As you get better results, remove dust and hairs from the part using a tack cloth, avoid a dusty atmosphere (obviously) and cover the part immediately to avoid dust and hairs falling on it when wet.
I use enamels. Get a mask from your local hardware shop which prevents solvent inhalation, spray in a well ventilated area and you will be okay. Toxic or not I wear a mask whenever I am spraying anything. As for practice, nothing beats it. Use old plastic soft drink bottles and practice on those first, try different settings and patterns on it. I also used ice cream containers for this purpose.
A
Airfix Modeller Freak
Guest
The mr hobby thinners reek like cellulose..... Anyway, up to you.\ said:
John
stona
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Oh no Joe! That's a can of worms. I too use enamels, though I have flirted with various acrylic paints. I fully understand why people move to acrylics but in my experience of both, enamels are MUCH easier to use. Most importantly they are more tolerant of my somewhat approximate (that looks about right) thinning methods. I also like the longer drying time, it gives me a chance to really look at and reflect on the finish and make appropriate adjustments.\ said:
It's a case of each to their own, there are pros and cons to both categories, but I know which I prefer
A quick H+S comment. One should really wear a mask for any spraying. Just because you can't see or smell something doesn't mean that it isn't there. I'm fortunate enough to have a really good booth/extractor but still mask up for anything other than touch ups or very minimal spraying.
Cheers
Steve
L
Laurie
Guest
Strange Steve how diametrically opposed to statements one can sometimes be. :eek:\ said:
Laurie
stona
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Well yes, but usually people don't profess to have moved to acrylics because they find them easier to use. They usually move to, or choose acrylics due to other factors and number one, time and time again in my experience, is the lack of odour both from the acrylic products themselves and the solutions needed for cleaning.\ said:Strange Steve how diametrically opposed to statements one can sometimes be. :eek:
Check the number of questions posed by acrylic users relating to blockages ( usually paint drying at the airbrush tip) and poor or weak finishes (a 'sandy' finish due to paint drying as it heads for the model and paint being lifted by masking) and compare that to similar questions from enamel users. You won't find many of either about enamels.
I have NEVER had a blockage at the nozzle of any of my airbrushes whilst using enamels over decades and it would seem it is an extremely rare occurrence for others too.
I'm certainly not trying to convert anybody to either medium, I'm just saying why I am in the enamel camp. Everyone has to find what works for them and what suits them best. The odour of enamel paints and solvents may be a determining factor, particularly for the latter. Many people have to spray indoors with limited facilities and in areas where other family members or pets might be exposed to the fumes. I am lucky enough not to have to worry about this, another reason why I still prefer enamels.
Whatever you choose the most important thing is to practice to improve and master the medium.....and have fun doing it!
Cheers
Steve
L
Laurie
Guest
Can only speak for myself on Acrylics and how I find them Steve. I doubt if I would have continued model making if I had continued to use enamel. I found it a most difficult media for numerous reasons.
Acrylics I took to from the first time I used them. For me they were a revelation as I found them easy to use and easy to clean up easier to manipulate. They are kinder if you make a mistake which for a beginner and expert alike.
But all this is as that horrid word "subjective". For any beginner I would suggest they get some acrylics and some enamel and use them to see which they like best. Also to look at what acrylics and enamels will do for you in the the chosen path of model making. Opposite ends of the spectrum military armour to high gloss motor cars.
Also the artistic nature of the chosen type of models. The aids that either acrylics or enamels have for weathering etc. Also patience. Some on this forum produce models at an alarming rate scale acrylics or enamels ? Patience comes into this. Can you wait for enamels to dry or do you second coat acrylics in 30 mins.
On the blockage of airbrushes I suspect that most are caused by poor maintenance and cleaning. Plus knowing your airbrush with a matched needle nozzle for the medium you are using. With the present airbrush in 6 months one blockage and my fault a new airbrush and poor attention to detail. But
an H & S brush 4 mins for a deep clean up and running for the second coat of acrylics. :eek: enamels drying time ?
Laurie
Acrylics I took to from the first time I used them. For me they were a revelation as I found them easy to use and easy to clean up easier to manipulate. They are kinder if you make a mistake which for a beginner and expert alike.
But all this is as that horrid word "subjective". For any beginner I would suggest they get some acrylics and some enamel and use them to see which they like best. Also to look at what acrylics and enamels will do for you in the the chosen path of model making. Opposite ends of the spectrum military armour to high gloss motor cars.
Also the artistic nature of the chosen type of models. The aids that either acrylics or enamels have for weathering etc. Also patience. Some on this forum produce models at an alarming rate scale acrylics or enamels ? Patience comes into this. Can you wait for enamels to dry or do you second coat acrylics in 30 mins.
On the blockage of airbrushes I suspect that most are caused by poor maintenance and cleaning. Plus knowing your airbrush with a matched needle nozzle for the medium you are using. With the present airbrush in 6 months one blockage and my fault a new airbrush and poor attention to detail. But
an H & S brush 4 mins for a deep clean up and running for the second coat of acrylics. :eek: enamels drying time ?Laurie
I am 100% with Laurie on this. I used enamels 'back in the day' and just before kids and career intervened acrylics were just appearing with which I dabbled (Humbrol being the only ones available). I took to acrylics immediately due to the lack of smell and easy clean-up.
When I returned I stared part enamel/part acrylic and with Humbrol. I then tried Vallejo Model Air in my (then) new a/b and was totally and instantly converted. I found them so much easier in so many ways, all the more so when I got to learn about their 'quirks'.
For me the most important lesson using acrylics was patience. Yes they 'touch dry' much quicker than enamels but that is not dry enough to do anything other than another base coat. To do anything more than that and certainly if it involves masking or varnishing you need to allow at least 24 hours for the paint to cure.
I also learned to use a proper primer - the Vallejo ones in my case. There are two benefits, first of all showing up flaws in the kit that can be corrected but secondly they help make a more robust finish. I have actually started to leave primers 48 hours before sanding (to make sure you can 'feather') and before applying a base colour.
Treat them right and acrylics have all their advantages and non of the disadvantages that can apply if you do it wrong.
Oh.... the clogging also need not be a problem, again its getting the rigth needle/pressure combination. I have made them work with a 0.2 needle but generally use now a 0.4 needle with no problems. One thing I do do when I am involved spraying a large model that takes several cup loads of paint is to squirt a cupful of thinner or a/b cleaner through between cup loads of paint.
Another tip with acrylics - thin with the companies own thinner, not water. This helps it 'stick' and be more robust.
When I returned I stared part enamel/part acrylic and with Humbrol. I then tried Vallejo Model Air in my (then) new a/b and was totally and instantly converted. I found them so much easier in so many ways, all the more so when I got to learn about their 'quirks'.
For me the most important lesson using acrylics was patience. Yes they 'touch dry' much quicker than enamels but that is not dry enough to do anything other than another base coat. To do anything more than that and certainly if it involves masking or varnishing you need to allow at least 24 hours for the paint to cure.
I also learned to use a proper primer - the Vallejo ones in my case. There are two benefits, first of all showing up flaws in the kit that can be corrected but secondly they help make a more robust finish. I have actually started to leave primers 48 hours before sanding (to make sure you can 'feather') and before applying a base colour.
Treat them right and acrylics have all their advantages and non of the disadvantages that can apply if you do it wrong.
Oh.... the clogging also need not be a problem, again its getting the rigth needle/pressure combination. I have made them work with a 0.2 needle but generally use now a 0.4 needle with no problems. One thing I do do when I am involved spraying a large model that takes several cup loads of paint is to squirt a cupful of thinner or a/b cleaner through between cup loads of paint.
Another tip with acrylics - thin with the companies own thinner, not water. This helps it 'stick' and be more robust.
stona
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I rarely clean my airbrushes as in 'deep clean'. I just flush them and wipe the bowl. Eventually they will need a proper clean but they let you know when! Usually its is months rather than weeks.
I'm never in a rush to get a second coat of paint on a model. Most enamels can be recoated in 8-12 hours, perfect for overnight reflection. Don't forget that most enamels cover far better than acrylics, this is certainly a factor when masking. I used to struggle to avoid a ridge along colour demarcations with acrylics.
I did say at the top that this was a can of worms and you will always get differing views of what works best. It's helpful to have differing views and to get the information out there.
Cheers
Steve
I'm never in a rush to get a second coat of paint on a model. Most enamels can be recoated in 8-12 hours, perfect for overnight reflection. Don't forget that most enamels cover far better than acrylics, this is certainly a factor when masking. I used to struggle to avoid a ridge along colour demarcations with acrylics.
I did say at the top that this was a can of worms and you will always get differing views of what works best. It's helpful to have differing views and to get the information out there.
Cheers
Steve
L
Laurie
Guest
With cleaning an airbrush Steve the type of airbrush has to be taken into account.
Started with H & S which is such an easy brush to clean. As said 4mins. top to bottom.
An Iwata is the very devil of a machine to clean. Needing spanners and very very nimble fingers to hold the nozzle even more difficult to clean. So for this one take to sink sluice with clean water, pump through 4 cups of water plus two cups of cleaner. Leave a small amount of cleaner in cup to avoid any residual paint there may be being naughty.
On coverage Steve Vallejo Acrylics is a great performer. Most, not yellow etc, will cover with a mist coat plus a full coat with about 20% thinned top coat. Should say that this is Vallejo Air. Other Acrylics including Vallejo Model I have not found so easy to use as Vallejo.
Just all proves try them to prove.
Laurie
Started with H & S which is such an easy brush to clean. As said 4mins. top to bottom.
An Iwata is the very devil of a machine to clean. Needing spanners and very very nimble fingers to hold the nozzle even more difficult to clean. So for this one take to sink sluice with clean water, pump through 4 cups of water plus two cups of cleaner. Leave a small amount of cleaner in cup to avoid any residual paint there may be being naughty.
On coverage Steve Vallejo Acrylics is a great performer. Most, not yellow etc, will cover with a mist coat plus a full coat with about 20% thinned top coat. Should say that this is Vallejo Air. Other Acrylics including Vallejo Model I have not found so easy to use as Vallejo.
Just all proves try them to prove.
Laurie
S
Stevekir
Guest
I hardly ever get a blockage now (Vallejo Model Air, H & S AB, 0.4 needle, 20 psi). I thoroughly clean the AB every time except when changing the paint (but not varnish) and continuing to spray. When I do, I think the problem could be clumping of the paint in the bottle. Model Air paints vary in this, perhaps because of the type of pigment particles used. Some migh coagulate (flocculate) more than others. Dark Sea Grey ( 71.042) is a suspect. I have a size 4 stainless steel nut in all my bottles and shake very well. Another clumping possibility is that the paint in the bottle's nozzle does not get mixed enough with the rest.\ said:........
On the blockage of airbrushes I suspect that most are caused by poor maintenance and cleaning. Plus knowing your airbrush with a matched needle nozzle for the medium you are using. With the present airbrush in 6 months one blockage and my fault a new airbrush and poor attention to detail. But
Laurie
On the question of enamels versus acrylics, I spray (with a spraybooth) in a spare bedroom. When using Tamiya Synthetic Lacquer recently, I had to do it in the garage because of the smell of the solvent (cellulose thinners) which would have filled the house. When I tried enamels some time ago, its solvent (White Spirit) also filled the house. For that reason I cannot conveniently use enamels, but clearly they give very good results.
This thread will be very helpful to beginners.
D
dubster72
Guest
Regarding clogging etc, there are a lot of people who have this problem with Vallejo paints (model colour rather than model air) . You only have to do a Google search to see that it's much more prevalent with Vallejo than any other brand.
The reason for this I believe, is that Vallejo add a 'plasticiser' to make their paint more durable & provide better coverage. This is the same ingredient that any car body shop adds when spraying plastic bumpers.
However in a small nozzle (0.2/0.3mm), this will cause problems with clogging for many.
I've used enamels with cellulose thinner before & the finish is better than any acrylic paint. The same finish can be achieved by using cellulose thinner & Tamiya acrylics, because they're synthetic acrylic.
The reason for this is chemical effect - lacquer / cellulose thinner being chemically 'hotter' bonds to the surface of the plastic. Acrylic paint simply sits on the plastic. Also the cellulose thinner breaks down the pigment much better, resulting in a smoother finish.
Each to their own, but my choice would
always be cellulose thinner either with tamiya acrylics or any enamel paint.
The reason for this I believe, is that Vallejo add a 'plasticiser' to make their paint more durable & provide better coverage. This is the same ingredient that any car body shop adds when spraying plastic bumpers.
However in a small nozzle (0.2/0.3mm), this will cause problems with clogging for many.
I've used enamels with cellulose thinner before & the finish is better than any acrylic paint. The same finish can be achieved by using cellulose thinner & Tamiya acrylics, because they're synthetic acrylic.
The reason for this is chemical effect - lacquer / cellulose thinner being chemically 'hotter' bonds to the surface of the plastic. Acrylic paint simply sits on the plastic. Also the cellulose thinner breaks down the pigment much better, resulting in a smoother finish.
Each to their own, but my choice would
always be cellulose thinner either with tamiya acrylics or any enamel paint.