Begginer advice?

[BarryW]

Patrick - on Vallejo, I have sprayed Model Colour successfully thinned 50% with a 0.4 needle. That said I have now moved fully to Model Air and have the full range (except metallics, I much prefer Gunze buffables for that). I keep Model Colour only in a few colours for specific jobs with a hairy stick, (black and white for detail for instance).

You are right though, it does depend on some specific factors and a 0.3 or smaller needle would be a problem with MC. The Model Air range now is so large there is no real need to mix and spray Model Colour (or any other brand).

It is indeed all to their own but as I said earlier, Model Air are easier to use for beginners but they do need to treat them right.

One further associated point....

On another forum, months ago, there was a similar thead and people got very 'antsi' with each other over it to such a degree mods had to intervene. I really have no idea why anyone would get so worked up to get nasty over this but what a testiment to this forum that we have all been able to exchange views and opinion here in such a constructive and sensible way. This is indeed the best forum on the net.

 

[Laurie]

Regarding clogging etc, there are a lot of people who have this problem with Vallejo paints (model colour rather than model air) . You only have to do a Google search to see that it's much more prevalent with Vallejo than any other brand.

Model Colour Patrick is a Vallejo paint basically for hand brushing. For me Model Colour is the best way I can find of clogging my Airbrush. Any one airbrushing this paint is a genius.

Which is why Vallejo produced Vallejo Model Air.

Just got to agree with Barry a nice discussion with a great number of issues among which most of us have a definite preference. One thing which is certain is that paint manufacturers would not be producing all of the products we have been pleasantly arguing about if there was not a demand.

Just one thing i would add is that I certainly would not have let my grandsons loose unless it was a non toxic product. I have been pleading with our local provider to stock acrylics for young people. The penny has dropped and there they are.

Laurie

Barry. I have noticed with interest that you have become a "Unicorn". Is this a Vallejo product.

 

[dubster72]

Laurie, surely Model Air is simply pre-thinned Model Colour?

And I think the reason why people airbrush Model Colour is (like me) a question of economics & not having sufficient funds to buy 2 lots of paint in the same colours.

 

[stona]

I agree, a very good, educational and good natured discussion. Of course different people will have different opinions and views about what works best for them. I'd be amazed if they didn't. Nobody is right or wrong, both camps have pros and cons.

I am interested to know if the much shorter drying time for acrylic type paints is an important factor in people's choices. It's not something that I read or hear often but you never know. What do you 'acrylicers' think?

I use a lot of WEM Colour Coats along with good old Humbrol enamels. Occasionally I will get hold of a special colour by Model Master (I quite like the screw top jars they come in). My favourites are definitely the Colour Coats. Not only do they do a very good range of accurate aircraft colours but they can be thinned with cellulose thinners and give a really smooth and durable finish. I personally can't match it with any acrylic I've tried, and that's most of them, during a flirtation of a couple of years. That's just me though

Nothing apart from a change in the law would get me back to acrylics, but then I bet Laurie feels the same way about enamels !

Cheers

Steve

 

[Laurie]

They say Patrick.

Model Air is a range of liquid acrylic colours developed especially for airbrush techniques, with very finely ground pigments and an acrylic resin with properties of extreme resistence and durability.

The formula contains a new acrylic resin with properties until now impossible to obtain in a waterbased acrylic. The resistence, hardness and covering power of Model Air is superior to any known acrylic for airbrushing.

The pigments used for airbrush colours need to be ground to the finest possible consistency to avoid obstruction of the airbrush valves. The revolutionary milling process of the pigments used in the Model Air formula gives the modelpainter technical assurance and finest texture when applying the colours to the model, and produces a very superior quality when applying the colours with a brush for miniscule details, for washes and transparencies and layered application of diluted glazes.



The difference is chalk and cheese, at least from my experience, with the fineness of the pigments. Thin Model and it does not work as Model Air. Model Air is much thinner when brushed on by hand. Model obliterates with most colours in one swipe.

Laurie

 

[Laurie]

I am interested to know if the much shorter drying time for acrylic type paints is an important factor in people's choices. It's not something that I read or hear often but you never know. What do you 'acrylicers' think?

Steve

Certainly was a factor mixed in with a load of others. But for instance on the present model after the top coat 30 mins later I was laying on for effect in different areas a slightly lighter colour to pick out interest.

It was not a factor in its own right I just tried acrylics as I had a really awful time with enamel. Just happened that acrylics suited my personality and I think that personality fact has a lot to do with the choice of paint type.

But 24 hours is a minimum if you want to wet and dry as you will just pull the paint off and leave craters. I usually manage with care to ensure I do not get hairs or bits so that is not usually a problem ie I do not have to wet and dry every coat. I am afraid drying time for enamels drove me potty but then I can become impatient. "She" told me so, many times.

Laurie

 

[dubster72]

Haha well Vallejo are hardly going to say that their product is rubbish! I'm sure the advertising blurb for every paint extols it's virtues.

I might buy a pot of Model Air & do a comparison test.

But my point regarding economics is still perfectly valid - not everyone can afford multiple paint types.

If it wasn't for the smell, I'd use enamels all the time - slower drying time isn't a factor with my glacial pace of building!

 

[Laurie]

Well Patrick you asked for the differences between Model Colour and Model air. The differences are given there. What they say there I would after 4 years of using their product is that I am satisfied with what they state. I do not use them on the basis of their blurb they are used on their merit.

Forgot to say that the thinners in Model Air and Model are not the same. They do not recommend keeping to that when thinning.

If you want to know more about Vallejo then their Q and A dossier I would say is second to none. No blurb either

http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/65a2f7365274da82fe3b0d786827957b/model-FAQS-CC001-rev03.pdf

Your last line Patrick equals my thinking personality chooses the paint.

Laurie

 

[stona]

Economics must be a factor for everyone (unless there's been a recent lottery win). I can tell you that even though I kept all my enamel paints when I used acrylics for a couple of years the changeover had a significant cost. When ditching the acrylics I had to rebuild stocks of some enamel colours which also incurred a cost. Everyone has a budget, some are bigger than others, but such costs do impinge on that budget.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Laurie]

Ah Steve that is interesting a reversal of my experience.

How did you find Acrylics whose did you use. Plus why did you switch.

Laurie

 

[stona]

As you say it's about what suits you. I first started spraying..ahem....a while ago using Humbrol enamels which were just about all that was available then. They were very good. I chose to switch to acrylics mainly to reduce the odours. At that time I had neither the booth/extractor, nor the space which I now enjoy. I tried Vallejo (both) Xtracrylix, Lifecolor and probably a couple more. I was never really happy with any of them during the two years I used them. I did get some decent results, particularly with the Xtracrylix, but why should I be adding retarders and flow aids to a purpose made product? I bought a couple of WEM Colour Coats for the colours which I needed on a project, being enamels I had no trouble spraying them, loved the results and more or less gave up on acrylics and reverted to enamels there and then!

Cheers

Steve

 

[flyjoe180]

I have a few Humbrol enamels that are over 30 years old and still perform. Do enamel paints last longer than acrylics when stored?

 

[Laurie]

Vallejo, Joe, say their acrylics will be fine for at least 5 years. Various have been tested at 10 and 20 years and have been found to be OK.

But they say water will eventually evaporate and the pigment sink to a lump at the bottom.

Humbrol or other enamels not a clue.

Laurie

 

[flyjoe180]

Thanks Laurie. The old Humbrols just needed a stir and they are ready again. Saved me a small fortune in paint when I got back into the hobby.

 

[aaron]

Me too Joe, I have humbrol paints that have lasted for years.I even have some of the polishable metalizer that is still fine.

I use both acrylics and enamels on the same kit...I love them both.

 

[stona]

Thanks Laurie. The old Humbrols just needed a stir and they are ready again. Saved me a small fortune in paint when I got back into the hobby.

Good on you Joe. You are obviously the meticulous sort who cleans the top of the tinlet and lid before sealing the paint in. I too have some 20+ year old Humbrols that still work absolutely beautifully, but being more slapdash in my younger days I've lost a few by failing to put the lid on properly too.

Cheers

Steve

 

[dave]

As someone who recently returned to the hobby I have 20+ year old Humbrol enamels and Tamiya acrylics that are fine, although the Windsor and Newton Inks had faded. I have always used a mixture of enamels and acrylics with artists oils and acrylics added to the mix, depending on the effect I want and the colours I have.

I use both Vallejo Model Colour and Model Air for airbrushing and I have to say the Model Air is better. I thin my Model Colours with the Vallejo thinner but I still have more problems. I also brush paint with both, but I routinely thin Model Colour with a distilled water/flow enhancer mix.

Which I buy depends on colour availability and if I think I will be airbrushing or brush painting most with that particular colour.