Help required on a paint product .

[JR]

Hi all, in my continued quest for decent figure painting I've at long last started to use a dark primer then very thin coats of paint .
Watching several U Tube channels I notice the use of Mr Hobby primer 1000 being used . My question is why is this used and not say a Mig , Vallejo , Ak acrylic primer .

After the Mr Hobby they use a normal acrylic paint .

I'm loathe to go over to another product like Mr Hobby as I'll have to use another thinners as well when I could use a dark acrylic primer .
Any thoughts or explanations why this is used.
Cheers .

 

[Ian M]

Watching several U Tube channels I notice the use of Mr Hobby primer 1000 being used . My question is why is this used and not say a Mig , Vallejo , Ak acrylic primer .

My guess is "because they get it sent to them as sponser backing".
Just use that which you have and are comfortable with. I like that stuff from Badger.. Styrylrez? but also use Vallejo and have recently tried some from AK, which I was not a fan of.
Many here say that Mr. Hobby stuff is OK so might be something in it.
I used to go for Alclad II primers. Dried quick, dried smooth and hard. Stank like mad. unfortunately proving hard to get these days!

PS t'was I that moved this to the paint booth...

 

[David Lovell]

Hi John, doubt very much because they were given it for free mr hobby dont need to get cheap advertising on YouTube their products are better than that ,in my own stupid opinion one of the best products out there ,why don't you hear more about them because people that use them have zero complaints ive pots of their acrylic paint using mr hobby acrylic thinners (also used to thin AK and other acrylic paints)you can also use their thinner and self leveling leveling thinner in acrylic paint plus its brilliant in tamiya paints. Why isn't it mentioned more well because like tamiya it comes in JARS ,bummer you can take the lid off and mix it and you know its mixed. No people want thoes dropper bottles where your never know if its mixed correctly(is this where half their mixing and spraying problems start) even if you've put it through your own patent applied for heath Robinson two in one reciprocating saw and paint shaker ,the latest trend seeming to be the need for some kind of spinning thing from a laboratory to try and mix dropper bottles and the biggest bug bear they mr hobby and tamiya dont come in thousands of hardly distinguishable shades they do a few real ones and some of thoes German RLM OBE MBE shades but you won't find dunklegelb thats been out in the rain for six weeks. Before you all round up a possie to hang me yes I use Ak and other brands in dropper bottles mainly because I'm lazy and if the s**t fits wear it.
Any way buddy back to the subject at hand here's what I use and know (hoping you know and trust me well enough by now) I've been using mr hobby aqueous black primer 1000 for some time now mixed with mr hobby aqueous thinner.

Dead easy to thin and put through the airbrush results speak for themselves .


And I havent attempted to paint them yet too cowardly it seem to give a excellent finish even on these tiny bad boys.

Your talking ten or twelve squids for a jar of the surfacer and a small bottle of aqueous thinner a jar is going to last a long time depending on how you actually go about using it but thats a subject for another day don't think they could take two of my thoughts in one day. Up to you mate but at the moment its my go to primer I think its also in grey and white as well now if you do give it a spin out make sure its the aqueous type (acrylic). Dave.

 

[rtfoe]

Hi John,
The one reason many use Mr Colors to spray from an airbrush is that it is easy with pigments so fine that I can spray it thick or thin, covers well within 2-3 coats. Because it's solvent based it dries fast and I can straight away paint over with acrylics. The thin pigments also don't hide any details when cured. The best thing about their lacquer paints is that it can be regurgitated with their thinners after hardening in the bottle for years. No wastage at all and have reused their empty bottles to store mixed paint.
The other paint I use for figure priming is Tamiya but with Mr Leveling thinner. The solvent base thinners acts as a biter to the surface making the paint cling tighter to the surface revealing detail.
For armour I use Krylon spray cans, although expensive they help cover large areas and can withstand heavy punishment from overzealous weathering.

Cheers,
Wabble

 

[Andy T]

I don't think the type of primer is that significant for figures John. As long as you can get it on thin and smooth and it dries fully, it'll be just as good as the next product.

I use mr Surfacer on mine but that's only because it's what I have for my vehicles etc, where I find a reliable, consistent, sandable primer much more important. I put it on my figures and miniatures just so I don't have to buy another product.

Look at the miniature painting world for an example. My son has only ever used rattle cans, pretty much anything he can get his hands on in the right colour. The best of the best in this field use all kinds of different primers from vallejo to automotive rattle cans, so don't think for a minute that mr hobby primer is some kind of magic bullet, necessary for a good paint job.

 

[langy71]

To be totally honest, I've never spent money on a 'branded' primer, I tend to use good ole halfords plastic primer, then basecoat in whichever colour I need (usually Tamiya NATO black) ... It works for me..

 

[Jim R]

As you may know, John, I am gradually moving over to MRP lacquer paints for airbrushing. Using Vallejo Model Color for brush painting details. I must confess that the MRP paint is a revelation. It sprays like a dream and creates a smooth hard finish. Clean up is a doddle. Over the years I have fallen for the hype of every "miracle" paint and primer advertised. It wasn't that they didn't work, although some were better than others, it was just that they all required different thinners, dilution, air pressure etc. I have just primed my Sd.kfz 251 with MRP primer and it went on even better than Stynylrez.

 

[Scratchbuilder]

Hello Wobble the painter,

I have started to use a black/mahogany primer from Mr Hobby, usually slightly more thinners that paint, also the new formula primer from AK. I was a bit dubious about going straight onto plastic/etch at first with the Mr Hobby but that went OK, For priming groundwork I use the AK product.

And as Jim has stated we all seem to have dropped into the all 'singing all dancing paint' trap, and like Jim I am slowly going back to lacquers rather than acrylic which in future will be used for brush painting where required. And hopefully less of the clogging.

And as you say there are some good videos on you tube that can be used as a guide.

Wibble

 

[Tim Marlow]

Personally I don’t like a dark primer on its own. Takes too many coats to cover it. I use Zenitel priming, black primer, then spray mid grey paint from about 45 degrees from above, then white paint from directly overhead. That way you get a gradient from dark to light that follows the proper highlights, then when you paint over that you get instant shadows. Only the black needs to be primer, the rest can be standard paint. Don’t worry too much about the type of primer though. They pretty much all do the same job, especially on figures. It’s rare to do remedial work on figures once they are primed.

On models, especially aircraft, you need primer that can be sanded so you can correct any minor imperfections in the finish before you spray the top coat. To me, that is a cellulose based primer like Tamiya or Mr Color. I’ve never yet tried an acrylic primer that is so forgiving. Most of them just don’t sand to a feather edge like the cellulose stuff does.

Thin paint on the top coat is a must though. Two thin coats is better than one thick coat, and paint like Vallejo is best used like that with a wet palette. It’s so much more flexible than paint that has to be used straight out of the pot, because you can modify it to do many different tasks from washes to drybrushing. Dropper bottles mean it’s very low on waste as well. You only put as much as you need on the palette.

All paint has its foibles though. You are better off staying with one or two brands and really learning how to use them. Changing brands to the latest shiny new kid on the block simply doesn’t help you grow as a painter. Once you really know how that brand works you will know what to look for to address the bits you are not happy with.

 

[Andy T]

As you may know, John, I am gradually moving over to MRP lacquer paints for airbrushing. Using Vallejo Model Color for brush painting details. I must confess that the MRP paint is a revelation. It sprays like a dream and creates a smooth hard finish. Clean up is a doddle. Over the years I have fallen for the hype of every "miracle" paint and primer advertised. It wasn't that they didn't work, although some were better than others, it was just that they all required different thinners, dilution, air pressure etc. I have just primed my Sd.kfz 251 with MRP primer and it went on even better than Stynylrez.

I have about a dozen MRP paints and agree with everything you've said about them. If John stocked them in the shop I'd probably convert fully, replacing my mr color as I run out. I find they spray almost identically, and can be mixed with one another, but the "straight from the bottle" of MRP means much less faff.

 

[Tim Marlow]

the "straight from the bottle" of MRP means much less faff.

Also means much less paint Andy….a lot of what you pay for volume for volume is thinners….but if your time is limited convenience outweighs cost Iknow.

 

[Steve-the-Duck]

Me, I use Halfords spray primers; grey, white or black, depending on the effect / 'brightness' of the figure. Of course, rattle cans do put out more paint than an airbrush, but they're a LOT cheaper overall

 

[stillp]

I've been using mr hobby aqueous black primer 1000 for some time now mixed with mr hobby aqueous thinner.
View attachment 485859
Dead easy to thin and put through the airbrush results speak for themselves .

I haven't seen Aqueous surfacer before Dave, does it brush well?
Pete

 

[wotan]

John

My major criteria is SMELL. I use anything that doesn't pong and to be honest I can't see any difference between products.

John

 

[David Lovell]

I haven't seen Aqueous surfacer before Dave, does it brush well?
Pete

Sorry Pete haven't got a clue only ever put it through the airbrush.

 

[JR]

My guess is "because they get it sent to them as sponser backing".
Just use that which you have and are comfortable with. I like that stuff from Badger.. Styrylrez? but also use Vallejo and have recently tried some from AK, which I was not a fan of.
Many here say that Mr. Hobby stuff is OK so might be something in it.
I used to go for Alclad II primers. Dried quick, dried smooth and hard. Stank like mad. unfortunately proving hard to get these days!

PS t'was I that moved this to the paint booth...

Thank you for moving it Ian .

Hi John, doubt very much because they were given it for free mr hobby dont need to get cheap advertising on YouTube their products are better than that ,in my own stupid opinion one of the best products out there ,why don't you hear more about them because people that use them have zero complaints ive pots of their acrylic paint using mr hobby acrylic thinners (also used to thin AK and other acrylic paints)you can also use their thinner and self leveling leveling thinner in acrylic paint plus its brilliant in tamiya paints. Why isn't it mentioned more well because like tamiya it comes in JARS ,bummer you can take the lid off and mix it and you know its mixed. No people want thoes dropper bottles where your never know if its mixed correctly(is this where half their mixing and spraying problems start) even if you've put it through your own patent applied for heath Robinson two in one reciprocating saw and paint shaker ,the latest trend seeming to be the need for some kind of spinning thing from a laboratory to try and mix dropper bottles and the biggest bug bear they mr hobby and tamiya dont come in thousands of hardly distinguishable shades they do a few real ones and some of thoes German RLM OBE MBE shades but you won't find dunklegelb thats been out in the rain for six weeks. Before you all round up a possie to hang me yes I use Ak and other brands in dropper bottles mainly because I'm lazy and if the s**t fits wear it.
Any way buddy back to the subject at hand here's what I use and know (hoping you know and trust me well enough by now) I've been using mr hobby aqueous black primer 1000 for some time now mixed with mr hobby aqueous thinner.
View attachment 485859
Dead easy to thin and put through the airbrush results speak for themselves .
View attachment 485860
View attachment 485861
And I havent attempted to paint them yet too cowardly it seem to give a excellent finish even on these tiny bad boys.
View attachment 485862
Your talking ten or twelve squids for a jar of the surfacer and a small bottle of aqueous thinner a jar is going to last a long time depending on how you actually go about using it but thats a subject for another day don't think they could take two of my thoughts in one day. Up to you mate but at the moment its my go to primer I think its also in grey and white as well now if you do give it a spin out make sure its the aqueous type (acrylic). Dave.

It's does appear from those photos to give a good finish Dave.

Hi John,
The one reason many use Mr Colors to spray from an airbrush is that it is easy with pigments so fine that I can spray it thick or thin, covers well within 2-3 coats. Because it's solvent based it dries fast and I can straight away paint over with acrylics. The thin pigments also don't hide any details when cured. The best thing about their lacquer paints is that it can be regurgitated with their thinners after hardening in the bottle for years. No wastage at all and have reused their empty bottles to store mixed paint.
The other paint I use for figure priming is Tamiya but with Mr Leveling thinner. The solvent base thinners acts as a biter to the surface making the paint cling tighter to the surface revealing detail.
For armour I use Krylon spray cans, although expensive they help cover large areas and can withstand heavy punishment from overzealous weathering.

Cheers,
Wabble

Thanks Wabble.

I don't think the type of primer is that significant for figures John. As long as you can get it on thin and smooth and it dries fully, it'll be just as good as the next product.

I use mr Surfacer on mine but that's only because it's what I have for my vehicles etc, where I find a reliable, consistent, sandable primer much more important. I put it on my figures and miniatures just so I don't have to buy another product.

Look at the miniature painting world for an example. My son has only ever used rattle cans, pretty much anything he can get his hands on in the right colour. The best of the best in this field use all kinds of different primers from vallejo to automotive rattle cans, so don't think for a minute that mr hobby primer is some kind of magic bullet, necessary for a good paint job.

Thanks Andy .

To be totally honest, I've never spent money on a 'branded' primer, I tend to use good ole halfords plastic primer, then basecoat in whichever colour I need (usually Tamiya NATO black) ... It works for me..

Thanks Chris.

As you may know, John, I am gradually moving over to MRP lacquer paints for airbrushing. Using Vallejo Model Color for brush painting details. I must confess that the MRP paint is a revelation. It sprays like a dream and creates a smooth hard finish. Clean up is a doddle. Over the years I have fallen for the hype of every "miracle" paint and primer advertised. It wasn't that they didn't work, although some were better than others, it was just that they all required different thinners, dilution, air pressure etc. I have just primed my Sd.kfz 251 with MRP primer and it went on even better than Stynylrez.

Thanks Jim.

Hello Wobble the painter,

I have started to use a black/mahogany primer from Mr Hobby, usually slightly more thinners that paint, also the new formula primer from AK. I was a bit dubious about going straight onto plastic/etch at first with the Mr Hobby but that went OK, For priming groundwork I use the AK product.

And as Jim has stated we all seem to have dropped into the all 'singing all dancing paint' trap, and like Jim I am slowly going back to lacquers rather than acrylic which in future will be used for brush painting where required. And hopefully less of the clogging.

And as you say there are some good videos on you tube that can be used as a guide.

Wibble

Wibble thank you .

Personally I don’t like a dark primer on its own. Takes too many coats to cover it. I use Zenitel priming, black primer, then spray mid grey paint from about 45 degrees from above, then white paint from directly overhead. That way you get a gradient from dark to light that follows the proper highlights, then when you paint over that you get instant shadows. Only the black needs to be primer, the rest can be standard paint. Don’t worry too much about the type of primer though. They pretty much all do the same job, especially on figures. It’s rare to do remedial work on figures once they are primed.

On models, especially aircraft, you need primer that can be sanded so you can correct any minor imperfections in the finish before you spray the top coat. To me, that is a cellulose based primer like Tamiya or Mr Color. I’ve never yet tried an acrylic primer that is so forgiving. Most of them just don’t sand to a feather edge like the cellulose stuff does.

Thin paint on the top coat is a must though. Two thin coats is better than one thick coat, and paint like Vallejo is best used like that with a wet palette. It’s so much more flexible than paint that has to be used straight out of the pot, because you can modify it to do many different tasks from washes to drybrushing. Dropper bottles mean it’s very low on waste as well. You only put as much as you need on the palette.

All paint has its foibles though. You are better off staying with one or two brands and really learning how to use them. Changing brands to the latest shiny new kid on the block simply doesn’t help you grow as a painter. Once you really know how that brand works you will know what to look for to address the bits you are not happy with.

Thanks Tim .

I have about a dozen MRP paints and agree with everything you've said about them. If John stocked them in the shop I'd probably convert fully, replacing my mr color as I run out. I find they spray almost identically, and can be mixed with one another, but the "straight from the bottle" of MRP means much less faff.

Me, I use Halfords spray primers; grey, white or black, depending on the effect / 'brightness' of the figure. Of course, rattle cans do put out more paint than an airbrush, but they're a LOT cheaper overall

Thanks Steve .

I haven't seen Aqueous surfacer before Dave, does it brush well?
Pete

John

My major criteria is SMELL. I use anything that doesn't pong and to be honest I can't see any difference between products.

John

Indeed .

Sorry Pete haven't got a clue only ever put it through the airbrush.

Learned members, thank you all for the replies.
As has been said we all have our likes .

The idea of a paint that doesn't smell has always been important to me due to my asthma. I did spray cellulose paints when I was in the workshop, with out any problem. Here I had a proper paint room with extraction and wore a face mask.

So as much as I would like to try MRP as they sound right up my street the fumes put me off. Even though I've just bought a new face mask.

Not wanting to have to buy another thinner also is another reason. Having spent a small fortune buying acrylics in the first place going over to AK 3 rd gen for spraying was easy . Although I did buy some of their thinners I still use VMS.
I can see and agree with the " trap " thinking that that looks good I'll invest in that .
I'll continue as normal and as Tim says " You are better off staying with one or two brands and really learning how to use them "
John .

 

[Jim R]

You are better off staying with one or two brands and really learning how to use them. Changing brands to the latest shiny new kid on the block simply doesn’t help you grow as a painter.

The soundest advice in this thread

 

[JR]

It is indeed Jim .

 

[Scratchbuilder]

The soundest advice in this thread

Well said Jim, learned that the hard way in my wallet....

 

[rtfoe]

Come to think of it I haven't tried any other primer paints other than the ones I mentioned for as long as I can remember so Tim's advice is spot on.

Cheers,
Wabe