Is this Silvering?

[Stevekir]

View attachment 73603


When I hold either side of the fuselage to the light in a certain way it of course reflects a highlight. The above photos avoid that. The bottom image shows the usual light grey rectangular shape around the AJ*F which is the decal carrier film. No problem. But in the top image this grey has a black blotchiness which matches the paint but is disturbing. (Acrylic paints by the way.)

I treated both decals the same, spraying the paint with gloss varnish, leaving it to dry for several days, then applying the decals as I have done before with Microset and Microsol.

Is this silvering?

Will the usual top coat of matt varnish make it disappear?

Thanks.

 

[aaron]

When i get that Steve i hit it with another coat of gloss which normally fixes it, really a shame because they have snuggled down nicely.

 

[colin m]

It's a difficult call, not actually seeing it in the flesh, but i think all will be fine when you put the matt coat on. If in doubt, just leave it alone for a week or two, by that time you will know for certain if it has silvered.

 

[Bunkerbarge]

Again difficult to say but it looks to me like it is a surface texture difference. However the black blotches do look more like the transfer has sat down better than the surrounding areas. A coat of Matt clear over it all may help but it could be the fact that the decal surface is quite differently textured to the surrounding paint but of course there is no guarantee it will be conclusive. One option would be to paint the black up to the edge of the lettering but there is a very real danger of making the edge of the lettering jagged. You could also try to " feather" it towards the edge of the lettering but you might still run the risk of making matters worse.

No real easy answer I'm afraid.

 

[papa 695]

Hi Steve if you havn't already put varnish on, gently run a sharp blade along the panel line under the decal between the letters and roundal, ( so just the black part ) then put some more micro sol on it should run under the decal and suck it down.

 

[BarryW]

Steve - I would run over the decal pricking it in all the places where the silvering shows. I would then apply, possibly several coats a few hours apart, Microlsol to soften and get under the decal drawing in and back down. This usually works. A sealing coat of gloss then a matt coat after the washes does the trick.

 

[Stevekir]

Clever fellahs! I pricked and slit and applied Mocroset (mitakenly, misreading your advice). This produced some wrinkles as it dried but, undeterred, I then applied Microsol which produced many wrinkles (more than is the normal when applying decls), but once it dried all the wrinkles and grey blotchiness had disappeared, leaving the whole of the affected area solid black.

However, all the decals that I have applied (to three aeroplanes) and the rest of the dacals on this model have had, before matt varnishing, a uniform grey where the carrier film is. Odd. But (after it is dry) I will apply a coat of gloss varnish as Aaaron suggests and the usual matt coat as Colin suggests.

It looks good, but I don't know why I got the blotchiness, just in this place. But I guess, comparing it with the other side of the model, that there was not such a hard glossy coat of varnish applied before decalling. Its called experience.

 

[papa 695]

Glad it worked Steve

 

[BarryW]

Nice one...

 

[Stevekir]

Unfortunately, after spraying with Vallejo Matt varnish (a different bottle from the one last used and which caused white spots—another post), the effect returned more strongly although different, with white patches. I bought some Model Colour (because more opaque than Air) black and Dark Sea grey (to give a matching "off black" for the Lancaster) and painted it on the affected areas: forward of the "A"; between the "A" and the "J"; and aft of the "J". Then re-varnished. The result is much better although not perfect (please see below). I'm not sure why I got silvering in this model (Revell) and not on the other two (Airfix). Apart from the manufacturer difference, I think that the gloss varnish I put on before the decals was not thick enough:

View attachment 74432


BTW, Model Colour Dark Sea Grey is much lighter than the Air version, despite the same English name. That caused a bit of confusion:

View attachment 74433


BTW x 2: Does anyone know why Air colour patches are graded while Colour ones are not? Can Air paints be applied thinly to give a paler result? Not in my experience, so far.

 

[tecdes]

No idea why they do that Steve have wondered myself.

But all paints in themselves will be the same colour thinly applied or not. But a thinned paint ( applied as a wash, mist coat or thinned) will be slightly transparent & the colour underneath will affect the resultant finish. Simple as that.

Apply one full or two coats the full colour will obliterate the base colour. That is except for such as yellows which are notorious in getting a depth of colour without "shining thro".

Laurie

 

[BarryW]

Steve - I would suggest not going by the names of the Vallejo colours as they are very misleading. Better to use the FS references or the information Vallejo supply for colours.

RAF Dark Sea Grey for instance is recommended as 71.097 Base Gray (see leaflet attached) and not 71.048 as you identified above.

View attachment 74486

View attachment 187509

 

[Stevekir]

Thanks for the Vallejo colour schemes chart. A mine of info which I had not yet discovered.

In my case, I simply wanted a grey (I chose Model Air Dark Sea Grey) to lighten black to produce an "off-black" to simulate "Night" used for night bombers' undersides. When I ordered the Model Colour Dark Sea Grey I found it much lighter. The chart is indispensable for choosing individual authentic colours.

 

[tecdes]

Actually Steve Vallejo will supply you with hand made colour charts. Cost more than nothing though.

The colour card they supply is OK to give comparison but it is not accurate in the printing. For instance the Vallejo Air grey I have just airbrushed no. 50 matches 47 on the colour card.

Best thing is to go nutty , like me, & get the whole range. You can then do your own tests. Bit expensive but not much in comparison to other past times. Less than the cost of a good quality cricket bat. Less than a TV licence. Plus not much more than a good evening out. That cannot be bad. Switch your heating off for a day & you have saved the amount.

Matter of interest not had our heating on in the 9 months we moves into our flat. Good insulation. Or could it be that all the flats around us have their heating on full blast. :D

Laurie

 

[stona]

It's a bit late now as I missed this first time around. With decals like that, made in one piece with a lot of decal film to make life easier for the manufacturer I would strongly advise cutting out the individual letters and markings using a sharp blade and steel rule, removing as much of the excess decal film as possible.

This won't necessarily prevent silvering but it will make it much less of a problem and much easier to sort out.

Cheers

Steve

 

[tecdes]

Yes I was a bit late in getting my brain around that one Steve. Age I suppose. Last decal job this worked like magic. Did not need a gloss coat all though this must facilitate placement of the decal.

Wondered why the decals have to have the offending silvering part on the perimeter but it must be a technical thing.

Laurie

 

[BarryW]

Actually Steve Vallejo will supply you with hand made colour charts. Cost more than nothing though.The colour card they supply is OK to give comparison but it is not accurate in the printing. For instance the Vallejo Air grey I have just airbrushed no. 50 matches 47 on the colour card.

Best thing is to go nutty , like me, & get the whole range. You can then do your own tests. Bit expensive but not much in comparison to other past times. Less than the cost of a good quality cricket bat. Less than a TV licence. Plus not much more than a good evening out. That cannot be bad. Switch your heating off for a day & you have saved the amount.

Matter of interest not had our heating on in the 9 months we moves into our flat. Good insulation. Or could it be that all the flats around us have their heating on full blast. :D

Laurie

Laurie - the one I posted is one that specifically deals with RAF colours and explains the wartime camo schemes with suggested Vallejo Model Air paints. It is not just one of those colour charts where you can compare the colours. On that you are right the colour chips you can buy are far better than printed charts as the latter can vary so much in how they render colours as do screens.

Incidentally Vallejo do Luftwaffe and US leaflets too and if you email them as I did they, I am sure, will post you them. I am not sure why these are not available on the website.

 

[tecdes]

Apologies Barry just making the point that colours on paper are not accurate. With scale etc it is better to have a range that it is possible to choose from as I find the actual colour is in a great deal of cases not authentic, if that is not a great contradiction, when applied to a model in scale.

laurie

 

[Stevekir]

It's a bit late now as I missed this first time around. With decals like that, made in one piece with a lot of decal film to make life easier for the manufacturer I would strongly advise cutting out the individual letters and markings using a sharp blade and steel rule, removing as much of the excess decal film as possible.This won't necessarily prevent silvering but it will make it much less of a problem and much easier to sort out.

Cheers

Steve

I thought of doing that way back in March when I did my first ever decal but thought it might weaken the image and cause it to crinkle. With experience I can see that it wouldn't. I will trim in future. Thanks for that.

 

[CDW]

I was going to ask a question that Laurie just touched upon above.

When you get the colour charts, are they adjusted to account for the different visual effect you get when at scale?

I.E. if I make a model saab 9-5 and spray it in cayenne red it'll look "wrong" to the eye.

So are the colour charts "actual" colours or "adjusted" to account for scale?