Kit complexity?

[GerryW]

So is there any sort of 'league table' of kit complexity, any 'beginner' to 'years of experience needed' sort of thing - looking around the forum, you can see that no matter the kit, people can and do add their own 'take'.
My thought was sort of along the lines of Airfix - suitable for the beginner, but what would 'follow' and in what order - Tamiya, Italieri, ICM, Zvesda, Minibox?

 

[Bugatti Fan]

Some manufacturers 'grade' their kits on the box, but not all.

 

[dave]

In my experience it varies a bit from kit to kit within a manufacturer in some cases, at least for aircraft
For Airfix their new kits are generally straightforwards and a reasonable fit, the same cannot be said of re-releases on some of their older kits.
ICM again the new kits are very good, the older kits less so.
Tamiya tend to be reliable in terms of a good build.

I would say do a bit of research, think what would you like to build, possible kits and then ask on here what people think of those specific kits

 

[wasdale32]

The issue is that there is no objective measure of "complexity".

In many cases part count seems to be used as an measure of "skill level" but that isn't always a true indication:

For example a tank from Meng or Rye Field Models (RFM) might have a very high parts count due to the individual track links ( as many as 900+ in some examples) but the rest of the model may be quite straightforward.

Conversely a model with a relatively low parts count may require a lot of expertise/experience* to achieve a good result due to problems with fit, poorly designed moulds or even just rubbish instructions.

Scale is also a factor - larger scales may be "more detailed" with higher parts count but can be easier to assemble than smaller scales.

In general the more "mixed-media" (plastic/resin/photo-etch etc) included in a kit the more "complex" the build will be as these require differing skill sets.

Mark

*remember that "experience" and "expertise" aren't always the same thing - someone who produces a model a week has lots of "experience" but they may not have a lot of "expertise"

 

[Dave Ward]

Grading kits is very subjective - Revell grade theirs by part count - as good a way as any. A high parts count doesn't mean that a model is any better it's just more complex! Think of a tank, each track has say 100 links per side, if each link has 3 parts ( not unknown ), then there's 600 parts to start with. I'm afraid it's up to the individual modeller - some love the simplicity of a Tamiya model, others crave the maximum number of parts.
The tendency is for a higher parts count - even 1/72 tanks can reach 200 parts! All you can do is read & watch reviews - follow blogs, and make your own mind up. One person can find a model easy - another difficult!
Mark is correct in the difference between 'experience' & 'expertise'
One of the most damning comments I heard on a long serving coworker was ' he had one year's experience, that he repeated 25 times!!'
Dave

 

[GerryW]

Thanks for the 'outlooks' - I'm thinking that I could have probably worded the initial 'question' differently and less open to comparing say a 'Airfix' 1/72 Tiger 1 with a 'Tamiya' 1/16th scale kit of the same Tiger 1. After all, I've made kits on and off since the late 1960s (with 'lay-offs' for other of life happenings) and wouldn't compare a 'Airfix' Arial Arrow/Leader kit to a Protar Jawa Speedway kit (both of which I have done in the past) except to say that neither of the kits would be one that I'd recommend to a 'novice', despite that the Ariel kit had far fewer parts!

The thought I had - is there any manufacturer that springs to mind that offer 'advanced/complicated' as 'normal', rather than 'as well as' 'basic/simple'?

The scenario - I'm 99% finished on a Tamiya BMW outfit and looking round at the next 'box' to fill the gap that I've made in the shelf, possibly a Zvesda/IBG/Italeri version of similar (yes I like my motorbikes!) or maybe something bigger - possibly a truck, but don't want to get into the kit, just to get frustrated/fed up of doing it (got 'burned' once - Airfix 1/8 Norton Commando, still sat in it's 'making box' after 20+ years!) so having read of a similar saga of a truck which required the chassis to be assembled almost as though you were building the real thing - at the moment, would like not to dive into those sort of depths (at this stage) on this trip into the hobby!

 

[GerryW]

Mark is correct in the difference between 'experience' & 'expertise'
One of the most damning comments I heard on a long serving coworker was ' he had one year's experience, that he repeated 25 times!!'
Dave

Yes - I've come across the saying before - usually after they've had something out of the ordinary come up & fouled it right up!

 

[Dave Ward]

Gerry,
I can recommend the Zvezda BMW & Sidecar - even though mine met a premature end, after dropping it! A load of trucks require you to assemble the chassis, and generally the chassis is over half the construction! How about a nice little staff car? The Tamiya Simca 5 is a little beauty, or the ICM Kadett Cabriolet, neither of which are particularly complicated. If you want something bigger, a Tamiya Krupp Protze builds very well.............
Dave

 

[GerryW]

Tempted with both the Zvezda BMW and the Protze - though did see a IBG BMW outfit on eBay, was tempted, afterall, how hard can a 1/35 m/c be???

 

[Jakko]

The thought I had - is there any manufacturer that springs to mind that offer 'advanced/complicated' as 'normal', rather than 'as well as' 'basic/simple'?

If I read your question right, you’re asking for manufacturers that offer simple kits that are still quite good? Generally speaking, this means you will end up with Tamiya, as there is very little that can beat them in terms of fit and ease of assembly. However, if you also want good detail, then don’t buy any of their kits that is more than about 30 years old (or based on a kit of that age), because the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

 

[GerryW]

If I read your question right, you’re asking for manufacturers that offer simple kits that are still quite good? Generally speaking, this means you will end up with Tamiya, as there is very little that can beat them in terms of fit and ease of assembly. However, if you also want good detail, then don’t buy any of their kits that is more than about 30 years old (or based on a kit of that age), because the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

Sort of, just didn't want to get a kit that 'dropped me in it' and (at the moment) have a really complicated assembly string - not sure if I'm up to it just yet!!

 

[Dave Ward]

Tempted with both the Zvezda BMW and the Protze - though did see a IBG BMW outfit on eBay, was tempted, afterall, how hard can a 1/35 m/c be???

Gerry,
you can answer that question, by downloading the instructions - both the IBG BMW & the Zvezda R-12 sidecar variants are on Scalemates - I always like to do this if possible - it give you an idea of what to expect!
Dave

 

[GerryW]

........................... the older Tamiya kits were all designed to look reasonably like the real thing, but not with real attempts at accurate details — or even shapes — in mind.

Having just done some more of the 'equipment' - can see this quite well - I've some from a 'later' kit (think it's from a Hanomag 251 kit) and comparing them to the items that came with the BMW outfit, there's no contest that the 'hanomag' ones are far better 'detail'

 

[GerryW]

Gerry,
you can answer that question, by downloading the instructions - both the IBG BMW & the Zvezda R-12 sidecar variants are on Scalemates - I always like to do this if possible - it give you an idea of what to expect!
Dave

I'll give that a go, thanks!
Edit just signed up, and had a look - wheee! Not sure.

 

[Dave Ward]

I'll give that a go, thanks!
Edit just signed up, and had a look - wheee! Not sure.

Smaller doesn't necessarily mean simpler! I see the Protze instructions are also on Scalemates...............
Dave

 

[Jakko]

I've some from a 'later' kit (think it's from a Hanomag 251 kit) and comparing them to the items that came with the BMW outfit, there's no contest that the 'hanomag' ones are far better 'detail'

Another thing with Tamiya, which your example reminded me of, is that they have a bit of a habit of releasing entirely new kits of much the same subject as they already have in their range. The Sd.Kfz. 251 is a case in point: their original Ausführung C kit is about as old as the BMW R75 you built, and of similar quality. However, they also released an Ausf. D in the 1990s that is much better-detailed. Still nowhere near what you get from a similar Ausf. D kit from AFV Club, Dragon or similar, but those are 1) newer, 2) usually more expensive, and 3) not as easy to build.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that with Tamiya, you kind of have to take care with which kit you buy, if you want both an easy build and reasonable accuracy.

 

[GerryW]

Another thing with Tamiya, which your example reminded me of, is that they have a bit of a habit of releasing entirely new kits of much the same subject as they already have in their range. The Sd.Kfz. 251 is a case in point: their original Ausführung C kit is about as old as the BMW R75 you built, and of similar quality. However, they also released an Ausf. D in the 1990s that is much better-detailed. Still nowhere near what you get from a similar Ausf. D kit from AFV Club, Dragon or similar, but those are 1) newer, 2) usually more expensive, and 3) not as easy to build.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that with Tamiya, you kind of have to take care with which kit you buy, if you want both an easy build and reasonable accuracy.

I think that it's the Tamiya 35020 kit (from what I can see in the shop) - it's one that my youngest son bought & made, so yes, probably around the '90s, with the guy leaping out of the back!
I get your point with what you're saying - they release a kit, then they put out a mk2, or (as I've noticed with the Protze) one towing a gun, with slightly different specs.

 

[Deleted member 5496]

Gerry look at the build topics on this & other forums. That will give you the complexity of a kit.

Laurie

 

[David Lovell]

Gerry I dont quite know where your at ,I honestly don't think that you can really grade kits from simple to hard ,I realise your just getting back in to this great pass time stroke hobby and perhaps dont want to fall in at the deep end but they are what they are ,the good the bad and the ugly. You love your motorcycles never made one but there's a lot of bikes out there from the Japanese manufacturers all should be pretty good (ahh the jawa, two valve sir upright in the frame sir, thoes were the days stood on the bend ducking the shale ,heady on the smell of ethanol) you didn't like the kit but wanted to build that specific bike so if I remember rightly that was your only choice ,what I'm trying to say is some times if that's what you want to build you might have to go the extra. At the end of the day we all pay our money and make our choices . Our late Simon T would have said it took a fair bit of fettleing but got there in the end. On a closing note I think we all started with tamiya if your not a rivet counter I wouldn't even worry about the accuracy of the early stuff they are as they say shake and bake not much modeling to them as good as any to get you rolling without the wheel falling off before you've even started but it all comes down to your choice of what you actually want to build. Dave

 

[Ian M]

Skill and experience are only gained one way. Practice.
A ten year old that has built models for two years can build a model as well if not better than a 50 year old that has never built any befor.
And visa versa. so its not a thing you can gauge by age. Its all don to practice and patience. (some might say perseverance).
Like many aspects of life, doing something you want to do is more inspiring than doing something you have to do.
Building a kit because you have read that it's a nice kit or is easy to build could lead to a disappointment, however building a kit of something you really like and want to build will give you more motivation to build it until the bitter end.
Dont be fooled by the 5 - 99 years bit. I got a jigsaw puzzle a while ago and I finished it in a week.