Tamiya Enamel Vs Humbrol Enamels - Advice needed

[Builder]

Hi All,


Before I begin my question, I wish to ask mostly those people who use or have used mainly enamel paints - hopefully there are a few of you out there.. I know one (Patrick! .. I think)


Most articles I find on this topic are about Tamiya Acrylics vs Humbrol Enamels, hence why my post, as I have never seen these two being discussed together or compared anywhere. 


As I'm new to the modelling scene. I currently have only one paint range.. the only paint range available to me... Tamiya Enamels. But recently I have found places that sell Humbrol Enamels as well. Now these are sold for around the same price but I am getting 4ml more per tin, as Tamiya enamels come in 10mL bottles. 


As most of the people on here are Brits, I'm guessing many of you must have used Humbrol. My question then is has anyone had experience (more than a year) using both Tamiya and Humbrol enamels, if so then

1. Are Humbrol enamels better, the same or worse than Tamiya enamels?
   
2. Are their any major differences between the two?
   
3. Do Humrbol have a larger, smaller or about the same paint range than Tamiya?
   
4. Are the Humbrol tins as easy to use as the Tamiya bottles?
   

I hope there are a few enamelers out here so any answer will be helpful. 


Bob the Builder. 

 

[Ian M]

I didn't even know that Tamiya did Enamel paint. I do know that any paint that comes in a glass bottle with a screw top lid is often doomed after the first use. I have some that I have NEVER been able to open once let alone twice.


I do Use enamel from time to time and Stona uses nothing but.


2. Humbrol are easier to fine (most places). 


3 ?


4, Pop of the lid stir paint! clean the rim pop the lid on again. 

 

[dubster72]

Well Bob, I'm actually quite glad that you've asked this question because I think you're working under a slight misconception.


Tamiya XF paints are really synthetic acrylics with an alcohol base. They're not enamels! Only the Tamiya X range are actually enamels.


Because the XF paints aren't water based like most acrylics, they have interesting properties, such as being able to be thinned with mineral spirit or with cellulose thinner.


Likewise Humbrol enamels can be thinned with both of the above substances.


As for which brand to use, that really depends on ones personal choice. Humbrol can often be found more cheaply than Tamiya, but many people like the convenience of the Tamiya screw top as opposed to the lids of Humbrol tinlets. 


If not sealed really well, Humbrol paints can form a skin within the tinlet which isn't conducive for painting. 


But Humbrol have a much wider range of colours, some that are specific to WWII colour matches. Tamiya have rather lagged behind on this front, preferring users to mix up complicated ratios.


My last point would be that Humbrol enamels are very user friendly. They're extremely tolerant of paint to thinner ratios, especially when airbrushing. They don't require a primer coat to be laid down, like most acrylics. This comes in very handy when painting small parts.


I'll state for the record that primer is helpful in itself to show imperfections that need fixing before the main coat goes on.


My personal preference is Tamiya XF acrylics thinned with cellulose thinner. It goes down very smoothly and sprays beautifully. A vented spray booth & mask is essential though. For brush painting, it's Humbrol - I can't make Tamiya paints work with a hairy stick! 


HTH


Patrick

 

[colin m]

Only the Tamiya X range are actually enamels

Well you learn something new every day. I had no idea.

 

[Builder]

HTH


Patrick

As always Patrick mate, you've been very very helpful with your answer. Lots of info for me to take in. 


I am really going to think about switching over to Humbrol enamels, as each one of my Tamiya paints finishes. I really like that they are very tolerant to paint to thin ratio, as Tamiya enamel can be tricky to get right with thinner. Most importantly though is the cost, they are just cheaper, I can usually paint an entire 1/72 WWII small aircraft with 1mL of enamel and then some, so that extra 4mL that Humbrol offers makes a big difference. 


I also like to use primer (not on small parts though) even though it doesnt make that much of a difference when using enamels. just to give the model that solid look and to make sure I get rid of any imperfections. 


You've been a great help mate!


Now just to make sure we are on the same page, when you say Tamiya XF is not actually enamel you do mean Tamiya XF Enamel as shown below. Not the actual acrylic bottle (shown in picture below the first picture). 


Tamiya Enamel

Tamiya Acrylic

 

[dubster72]

No worries Bob, we're all here to help! 


Obviously water based acrylics have become much more popular in recent years due to their lack of odour, but I do think that enamels still have their place. But comparing the two is a contentious subject (something we've seen in the past), so I'll not go into that here


The XF range are acrylic. I know that on the Tamiya website they're described as enamel, but I'm at a loss as to why that is. Perhaps because they're alcohol based & not water based? Maybe it's for the North American market, to allow consumers to distinguish between the two types?  :/


I'm not saying our colonial cousins are easily confused though...


Actually I've had a thought! Maybe the ones described as enamel are only for the Japanese home market. The restrictions on shipping flammable liquids might mean it's more cost-effective to sell just acrylics overseas.


Whichever it is, you can be sure that any Tamiya paints you buy in the UK are acrylics - with the exception of their aerosol TS range!


Nothing's ever simple!

 

[PaulTRose]

I didn't even know that Tamiya did Enamel paint. 

ditto!

 

[Mark P]

I didn't know they done enamel paint either :S

 

[dubster72]

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/enamel_2.htm


http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/acrylic_2.htm


Confusing, no?  :S

 

[Builder]

No worries Bob, we're all here to help! 


Obviously water based acrylics have become much more popular in recent years due to their lack of odour, but I do think that enamels still have their place. But comparing the two is a contentious subject (something we've seen in the past), so I'll not go into that here


The XF range are acrylic. I know that on the Tamiya website they're described as enamel, but I'm at a loss as to why that is. Perhaps because they're alcohol based & not water based? Maybe it's for the North American market, to allow consumers to distinguish between the two types?  :/


I'm not saying our colonial cousins are easily confused though...


Actually I've had a thought! Maybe the ones described as enamel are only for the Japanese home market. The restrictions on shipping flammable liquids might mean it's more cost-effective to sell just acrylics overseas.


Whichever it is, you can be sure that any Tamiya paints you buy in the UK are acrylics - with the exception of their aerosol TS range!


Nothing's ever simple!

Thanks again Patrick, you get the Tamiya enamel bottles both XF and X range here in Aus very easily so they're quite common, You might be right they might not think it effective to ship these to UK or the US. Once again thanks for all the help, especially with Humbrol's description. Good to know their paint range is quite extensive. I will start changing over next time I go buy some paints. 

 

[Builder]

I didn't even know that Tamiya did Enamel paint. I do know that any paint that comes in a glass bottle with a screw top lid is often doomed after the first use. I have some that I have NEVER been able to open once let alone twice.


I do Use enamel from time to time and Stona uses nothing but.


2. Humbrol are easier to fine (most places). 


3 ?


4, Pop of the lid stir paint! clean the rim pop the lid on again. 

Well you learn something new every day. I had no idea.

ditto!

I didn't know they done enamel paint either :S

Hey All, they definitely do exist and I have been using them exclusively for a year now!

 

[john]

Only the Tamiya X range are actually enamels.

The X range are also acrylic, X = gloss, XF = flar/Matt 


Tamiya do a range of enamels but due to labelling issues they are not available in the UK, maybe when we leave the EU that will change. 

 

[stona]

There are plenty of other enamel ranges available.


Humbrol seem to have overcome some of the quality issues of recent years ago, but there are still some dodgy tins out there. I bought a tinlet purporting to be 'copper' which actually contained a greyish gunge for which I have yet to find a use! I do still use Humbrol, but my most used range is the ex White Ensign, now Sovereign Hobbies, Colourcoats. I wouldn't know about shipping/availability down under, there may well be an agent in Australia. For spraying these are the best I have found and the colours are accurately matched to the various historic colours.


To a lesser extent I also use Modelmaster and Xtracolour enamels, both are available in the UK, again, don't know about the antipodes.


Apart from that I think Patrick answered the other questions very well.


Cheers


Steve

 

[Builder]

There are plenty of other enamel ranges available.


Humbrol seem to have overcome some of the quality issues of recent years ago, but there are still some dodgy tins out there. I bought a tinlet purporting to be 'copper' which actually contained a greyish gunge for which I have yet to find a use! I do still use Humbrol, but my most used range is the ex White Ensign, now Sovereign Hobbies, Colourcoats. I wouldn't know about shipping/availability down under, there may well be an agent in Australia. For spraying these are the best I have found and the colours are accurately matched to the various historic colours.


To a lesser extent I also use Modelmaster and Xtracolour enamels, both are available in the UK, again, don't know about the antipodes.


Apart from that I think Patrick answered the other questions very well.


Cheers


Steve

Thanks Steve for the info, Im going to start switching over to Humbrol as they are the only other enamels here in Townsville, reasons being more colour range and offcourse price. 


I will still keep using Tamiya enamels though, there are many great colours and paints in the tamiya range. 

 

[BarkingDog]

Tamiya do a whole range of both acrylic (although alcohol based) and enamel paints.


Both ranges have paints marked X and XF. The X are the gloss ones and the XF are the flats.


I have used the Tamiya enamels and they are excellent. I can't comment on whether they are better than Humbrol as I haven't used Humbrol.

 

[dubster72]

Tamiya do a whole range of both acrylic (although alcohol based) and enamel paints.


Both ranges have paints marked X and XF. The X are the gloss ones and the XF are the flats.


I have used the Tamiya enamels and they are excellent. I can't comment on whether they are better than Humbrol as I haven't used Humbrol.

Perhaps you'd be so good as to point out the flaws in this thread then? As far as the Tamiya range, I think we got there in the end

 

[dubster72]

I also heard one of the people giving wrong information of this post say that Ammo paints are alcohol based, that too is wrong they are most definitely water based acrylics.


people should not give advise if they are not sure that what they are saying is correct.

Unless my eyes deceive me, there's no mention of Ammo paints.... 


And as for them being water based, how do you account for their willingness to be thinned with cellulose thinner? No other proprietary water based acrylics (Vallejo, Lifecolor etc) will do that.

 

[BarryW]

Patrick - Ammo are water based and are very close to Vallejo and AK Interactive paints in their make-up.  Their washes are enamel though and perhaps that is where confusion lays.  I have never tried thinning any of these, Ammo, AKI or Vallejo with cellulose myself but they do react badly to ipa thinning.

 

[dubster72]

Patrick - Ammo are water based and are very close to Vallejo and AK Interactive paints in their make-up.  Their washes are enamel though and perhaps that is where confusion lays.  I have never tried thinning any of these, Ammo, AKI or Vallejo with cellulose myself but they do react badly to ipa thinning.

 Barry, I'm not a chemist so I can't say what the chemical composition of any paint is. But although Ammo are described as being water based, I know from experience that they'll happily thin with cellulose. The only other acrylics I know that share that property are Tamiya & Mr Hobby Aqueous. Both of these are synthetic acrylics with an alcohol base. If they were of a similar composition to other acrylics, any attempt to mix them with cellulose would end in that well-known gloopy mess!


That's what leads me to suspect they're not the same formula as VMA, VMC etc.

 

[stona]

Well as luck would have it I am/was a chemist!


I can't comment on the composition of the paints mentioned, but I can comment on the composition of 'cellulose/laquer thinners'. This is not standard, various mixtures are used by different manufacturers. Some may be slightly soluble in or miscible with water, which means they might act as a thinner for a water based paint, but I don't think that all the compositions would necessarily work. It's impossible to say for sure without knowing the composition of the particular brand of thinners used.


Some thinners are largely toluene....and that will simply float on water. Xylene is the next one up in molecular terms...and has similar properties. Some contain substantial proportions of acetone....and that is miscible with water. Butyl acetate...floats on water. Ethanol....completely miscible (it forms an azeotrope which is why 100% ethanol cannot be produced by distillation). I could go on, through a list of all the solvents which I know are used in 'cellulose thinners', but it's a long list, and I won't.


There is no simple answer and at least one poster above might want to moderate his tone.


Cheers


Steve