Kotare Spitfire Mk.Ia (1/32)

[Waspie]

Generally four piece.

The Sutton, as in this and most British aircraft had an extra part that passed over the pilot's shoulders and through a slot in the head armour to an attachment in the rear fuselage (2 in the image below) The other part of the shoulder restraint (1 in the image below) passed behind the seat, or, later, behind the pilot and through a slot in the seat, to an attachment lower than his posterior.

The shoulder straps combined with the two lap belts still meant that there were just four belts pinned together with a quick release pin, at the waist.

This is the best drawing I have of a Sutton harness.

View attachment 485067

Here's an explanation from the late Edgar Brooks:

The standard fit was for two straps, joined into a "Y" shape, to come over the backrest. These were joined by another pair, coming through a slot in the fixed armour/headrest. Two friction adjusters, shaped like a "0," held the two sets together, roughly on the pilot's shoulders. The ends of the "Y" straps had the (5) holes for the retaining pin, while the two, which came through the bulkhead, each ended in small brass crosspiece, so the pilot could grasp them, and pull the whole lot tight. Two lapstraps, with only two holes, were fixed underneath the seat, so that they came up about halfway along the pilot's thighs. The righthand strap fed through the slot in the side of the seat bucket (presumably to ensure that it didn't foul the seat raising/lowering mechanism, while the lefthand strap tended to disappear, and had to be "fished" for (at least it could be seen through the open door.) Initially, the "Y" strap bolted straight onto a crossbar at the bottom of the seat's bulkhead, but, in April, 1941, the bottom few inches were replaced by a short length of cable, to give more freedom of movement.
The straps were numbered; no.1 was the left shoulder strap, and there was a narrow strip of webbing, running underneath the holes, along which a "T"-shaped pin slid, so the the stalk of the T popped through (any) one of the holes. The pin was tapered, rather like a drawing pin (thumb-tack, in some quarters, I believe,) and had a hole drilled through it. No.2 was the right thighstrap, 3 the left thighstrap, and 4 was the right shoulderstrap. To no. 4, a triangular pin was attached by a short length of cord. The two ends of the triangle were splayed out, after they touched, and a third length of rod was fitted between them, attached to a crossbar just inside the triangle. Each successive strap was laid over the tapered pin, and the central rod, of the triangle was pushed through the hole, to hold the whole lot together; the sides of the triangle acted as a spring to stop the rod from sliding out. All the pilot had to do, in an emergency, was pull the triangle out, the straps fell away, and out he went.

Thanks for that Steve. They were very rudimentary but look effective.

 

[Andy T]

Thanks for that Steve. They were very rudimentary but look effective.

I'd imagine seat shape provided a degree of anti submarining protection, as it does in many modern motor vehicles where multi point belts are undesirable.

 

[Waspie]

I'd imagine seat shape provided a degree of anti submarining protection, as it does in many modern motor vehicles where multi point belts are undesirable.

I have visions of aircraft doing belly landing and the poor pilot sliding under his lap straps!!! Don't know if anti submarining was a known problem back then. Or just used the KISS principle when mass producing warbirds!

 

[stona]

I have visions of aircraft doing belly landing and the poor pilot sliding under his lap straps!!! Don't know if anti submarining was a known problem back then. Or just used the KISS principle when mass producing warbirds!

I've never read of a pilot doing that.

The thing that many of them did in a crash landing was strike the gunsight with their head/face, even given their restraints. Some were killed this way. Unfortunately a gunsight must be positioned in a pilot's line of vision, that is in front of his face, to serve its purpose.

If you remember Rhodesia's UDR you will remember the country's then leader, Ian Smith.



The asymmetry in his face, and scarring that the photographer has largely hidden, was caused when he crashed his Hurricane on take off in Egypt in 1943. He suffered severe injuries, not just those to his face caused by the gunsight.

 

[Waspie]

I must admit Steve neither have I. That said, something must have changed to move across to a five point harness. All my years in aviation, all crew stations were 5P.

On the Sea Fury, the worry wasn’t the gun sight but the propellor. If doing a wheels up landing the prop had a habit of bending and due to the position of the cockpit smashing the cockpit and driver!!!
A chap I know, elected to ditch a Sea Fury off Ayrshire in the 80’s when one of his U/C failed. Up to 5000 feet, pointed it in a safe direction and jumped!! (Same chap was also responsible for ditching the last, at the time, flying Sea Fury).

 

[Jakko]

A chap I know, elected to ditch a Sea Fury off Ayrshire in the 80’s when one of his U/C failed. Up to 5000 feet, pointed it in a safe direction and jumped!! (Same chap was also responsible for ditching the last, at the time, flying Sea Fury).

Wait, they let him into the last flying one given his previous record?!

 

[Waspie]

Wait, they let him into the last flying one given his previous record?!

I don't think he does it deliberately!! The second was down to an engine failure, after ripping both wings off and substantial damage to the underside - it was written off!! Sad but at least they had another nearing completion in the Navy Wings restoration shed.

 

[Tim Marlow]

Wouldn’t the fact that they were sat on their parachutes, which, in turn, fitted into the seat base, stop them submarining? After all, the chute had straps around the legs as well as the shoulders.

 

[stillp]

I 'submarined' when I crashed my Imp into a power pole in 1977, as my three-point harness, not the inertia reel type, was too long for the car so was loose. The submarining cost me a smashed ankle as the floor came up to meet my foot going down, and also several back teeth as I was stopped from sliding when the diagonal belt caught me under my chin and pulled the back of my jaw up. On the other hand, it saved me from a worse injury as a heavy competition silence that was on the rear parcel shelf was flung forward and just clipped the top of my head as I slid down under the dashboard, leaving a six-stitch has in my scalp. Had it hit squarely on the back of my skull I probably wouldn't have survived.
Pete

 

[Waspie]

Wouldn’t the fact that they were sat on their parachutes, which, in turn, fitted into the seat base, stop them submarining? After all, the chute had straps around the legs as well as the shoulders.

Don't know how the seats were configured. Flat bases or like a pan for a chute to sit in it. Being ex RN we usually had dinghy's under our arses. (Sea Kings) Wasps we had a different dinghy which was worn on our back.
Only time we wore parachutes were if we were on a test flight over 10,000 feet!! Then they were worn on our back.
Been looking at Pros and motors all afternoon re Chris's Tiger issues, (I can't do any work on my chilly until my new glasses arrive sometime next week) Think I'll have a break from props and look and see if I can establish when 5 point harness were introduced!!!

 

[stona]

"Flat bases or like a pan for a chute to sit in it."

So, the lozenge shaped depression in both metal and resin bonded paper Spitfire seats was to accept the air bottle that inflated the dinghy, not the parachute which was far too large to fit it.

The reason the Kotare kit has a 'flat' seat pan is because at the time it was built the pilots did not have a dinghy. They did have a sheet of 'sorbo rubber' between the parachute and their derrieres. No idea what 'sorbo rubber' was but presumably it served as some slight padding.

 

[Jakko]

“Sorbo rubber” appears to be a term for a spongy form of rubber. I imagine that the pilots got what amounted to a piece of modern camper’s sleeping mat.

 

[Waspie]

“Sorbo rubber” appears to be a term for a spongy form of rubber. I imagine that the pilots got what amounted to a piece of modern camper’s sleeping mat.

Fist word that entered my shell of a brain cell was ‘absorbent’ maybe a play on words! That or invented by an Aussie???

 

[stona]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:



So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

 

[Waspie]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:

View attachment 485123

So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

It’s still like sitting on concrete after a few hours!!!!
All the seats I have sat on get through to your delicate posterior after a few hours, be it rubber, sheepskin or plain old canvas!!
Numbus-bumus sets in!!! 5000+ hours as confirmation!!!

 

[Tim Marlow]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:

View attachment 485123

So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

Jakko was right then…….camping mat…..also makes great model railway track underlay……

 

[Mickc1440]

With all the great work you did on the cockpit it was a good call on the seatbelts to finish it off, lovely work so far

 

[stona]

Jakko was right then…….camping mat…..also makes great model railway track underlay……

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

 

[Tim Marlow]

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

Could’ve been stitched to his bum I suppose . Seriously though, never seen it used in period shots. Would be quite awkward to place it as the pilot sat down wouldn’t it? First thing to be ditched during a scramble I should think, so perhaps it was supplied but not used by experienced aircrew?

 

[langy71]

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

Any possibility that the pilots were 'issued' with said rubber mat and they then binned it, due to the hassle of constantly having to carry it to and from each aircraft?
I'm basing this thought around the idea that in the event of damage to their airframe they'd be assigned a different one, so would have to 'swap' any 'comfort items' between them.

(possibly the same kind of scenario, but ask any ex-squaddie just how much of his issued kit he actually used and most will be able to list a couple of items that were dumped in the rear of his locker never to see the light of day again...)