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What’s the difference between a ship and a boat?
- Thread starter bilbo
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I never got that far into the document Jakko. I even struggled with the paragraph you quoted above. I’m just not cut out to be a lawyer.....
The last page Tim.
"Case-law relating to differently worded definitions has struggled and probably failed to come up with future-proof literal or other interpretations which can convince a layman as to the precise meaning of the terms ‘vessel’ and ‘ship.’ Undoubtedly new ‘contrivances’ will continue to be added to the list of items which are popularly called vessels or ships, and some legal definitions will be altered and new ones created; legislators, national and international, usually lag behind an industry focussed on innovation, thereby providing a playing field for litigation lawyers. If ever any proof were needed that, in the words of an eminent Roman jurist, every definition in law is dangerous,95 one need look no further than the travails of the legal profession and the judiciary in defining a ‘vessel’ and a ‘ship.’ "
Had a brief read through before I starting to talk gibberish to Christine, resulting in a slap !
The best part was the case about weather a dredger that lifted itself up was actually a vessel
A case in point is the judgment delivered by the Irish Supreme Court in The Von Rocks. 67 The craft in question -------------------- 61Ibid. 62IOPC Fund Documentation: 92Fund/EXC.22/14 24, 24th October 2003, at §3.8.13. 63IOPC Fund Documentation: 92Fund/EXC.8/8, 6th July 2000, at §4.2.5. 64Current available text effective as of April 1 2016. 65OPOL text effective as of April 1 2016, Clause 1(8). 66Similarly there is no definition of a ship in the 1999 International Convention on the Arrest of Ships. 67(1998) 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 198. 494 Journal of Maritime Law & Commerce Vol. 47, No.4 was a ‘backhoe dredger, which is primarily used in harbours, channels or estuaries to deepen the waters at such locations.’68 It had no means of self-propulsion or self-direction. It lacked the vessel-associated characteristics of a bow, stern, or possession of an anchor.69 Dredging was carried out whilst it was jacked-up in position on the seabed through the use of hydraulically operated spud legs, which could later be raised to enable towing; an alternative method of movement would involve dismantling and transportation.70 The implementation of the Arrest Convention 1952 into Irish legislation involved the application of a definition section with words defining ship and vessel in wording identical to that contained in the amended British 1894 Merchant Shipping Act. The Court of first instance presided by Judge Barr accepted the defendant’s argument that the Von Rocks was not a vessel. The Judge applied the ‘primary/incidental purpose reasoning in marine insurance flying boat case Polpen v. Commercial Union, 71 referred to above, and came to the conclusion that the primary purpose of the backhoe dredger was that of being a rigid dredging platform.72 The judgment was however reversed on Appeal to the Irish Supreme Court; Judge Keane specifically rejected this argument and came to the conclusion that the statutory definition was not exhaustive and that a vessel which was not used in navigation ‘in the conventional sense’ could still fall within the category of ‘ship.’73 However, one can envisage the difficulty which may well arise if this type of dredger whilst not being -------------------- 68Per Barr J., in court of first instance [(1998) (2 Lloyd’s Rep. 198 at 199)]. 69Per Barr, J., in court of first instance [(1998) 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 198 at 199)]. 702 Lloyd’s Rep. 198 at 202. 71See text above at fn. 46. 72[1998] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 198. 73[1998] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 198, at 208. See also Global Marine Drilling & Co. v. Triton Holdings Ltd (The Sovereign Explorer) [2001] 1 Lloyd’s Rep. 60, where at page 61 Lord MacFadyen (Scotland Outer Court, Court of Session) refers to earlier litigation in that case (involving a mobile offshore drilling unit): “A motion for recall of that arrestment on the basis that Sovereign Explorer is not a ship, and on the basis that the arrestment was nimious and oppressive, was refused by Lord Marnoch on Nov. 12, 1999”. This point was not addressed at the appellate stage. October 2016 What is a Ship? 495 495 navigated is used negligently and damage is caused to third parties, e.g. through the negligent triggering of dredged explosive. At that point in time, it would be extremely difficult to treat the craft as a vessel for the purpose of section 313 of the British Merchant Shipping Act 1995, as the vessel is not in the act of being navigated. However, English Courts may well tend towards the view th
Following this delightful read I will now call all VESSELS.
Gibber gibber....my old man’s a mushroom..... 
I had to study the regulations relating to the equipment on board vessels, SOLAS (The Safety Of Life At Sea) Regs, and the associated ISO standards, in order to propose an amendment to address a serious shortcoming of the standard that had resulted in a fatality, on the instruction of a coroner. It turns out there's no definition of a 'safety device' either.
Incidentally, my proposed amendment was rejected unread by the Chairman of the relevant ISO committee, who, with several expletives which I won't include here, declared that there would be no alteration of these regulations as long as he was alive to stop it! He's a retired US Navy officer who had commanded an aircraft carrier, which he referred to in some correspondence as 'his boat'.
I'm glad I'm retired.
Pete
Incidentally, my proposed amendment was rejected unread by the Chairman of the relevant ISO committee, who, with several expletives which I won't include here, declared that there would be no alteration of these regulations as long as he was alive to stop it! He's a retired US Navy officer who had commanded an aircraft carrier, which he referred to in some correspondence as 'his boat'.
I'm glad I'm retired.
Pete
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I’ll let you into the secret that I didn’t quite read all of it either
That’s to say: I skipped almost straight to the end to see if it had a conclusion or summary, and happily, it did.And now, childen, I will show you how to set yourself on the path to having to create a commission to investigate a major accident!
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Interesting thread...Lots of opinions. Still none the wiser!
What boats have a plimsoll line? Seems like a good differentiator, even cruise ships have them. PaulE
Technically a cruise ship is a yacht..... Lol. (A 'luxury' vessel regardless of size, for the transport and entertainment of people).
Sorry could not help myself.
Sorry could not help myself.
boatman
SMF Supporter
OH YES John she's gonna give you some stick lolA Sea Plane or a Flying boat !
Good night.
No not again Matron !!!!!!!!
A yacht maybe, but not a boat.
PaulE
PaulE
boatman
SMF Supporter
WEL I THINK its up to the person lookin at it an think well its big an not small so its a ship any thing under a hundred ft in lenght is a boat any thing over is a ship thats the way i look at it but thats just me because lets face it you can debate this for ever an as Noel said im still none the wiser
chris
chris
Ah....but a boat in the right place is worth eighteen!
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Although I said I was none the wiser, I think that I will go along with Paul about having or not having a plimsoll line is probably the nearest to having a differentiator.
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I'll have to pass on that one Peter!
boatman
SMF Supporter
well for my pennyth worth on warships when i was down portmouth i was talkin to a chap an he said if its over hundred ft in lenght then its a ship an thinking also about this plimsole line on warships its called the draught line an normaly painted black with its draught markin of how much draught she is drawin in numbers like on my norfolk its in meters on the bowAren't Plimsoll lines only on merchant ships though? If that's the difference, all warships are boats?
Pete
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