J
jankers
Guest
Great work, I'm very jealous of the steam plant!
Please keep us imformed as I would loke to see the boat on the water.
Please keep us imformed as I would loke to see the boat on the water.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
The last couple of shots of the Ben Ain below show the progression of the construction of the model itself. The additional riveting around the forward bulkhead can clearly be seen. To get the match correct with the plate straps on the bulwarks, which were supplied with the kit, I decided to drill and insert individual dress making pins. Obviously this took some time but I again think the result was worth it.
In the absence of actual drawings I tried to think about how the area would be constructed and scribed the plate lines accordingly. Almost certainly curved plates would be separate from straight plates and an appropriate plate size was considered as about 6 ft by 2 ft. One of the doors was left open to give the area a bit of interest so the rear was boxed in to maintain the watertight integrity.
The anchor windlass was made according to the instructions and was finished in a semi-gloss black with a light degree of weathering. One point of interest is that I wore away the paint on the winch warping ends to look the same as a real unit. This is where experience of real ships pays tremendous dividends, as I have been lucky enough to see first hand how things look with normal wear and tear and how then weather over the years. I did a similar thing with the bollards, which will be finished with a crewmember and some realistic ropes as the model finishes.
Finally, as I work away from home for three months at a time, I always try to take the odd piece with me to continue the project. Such things as crew figures are ideal to work on in my cabin and keep the interest in the project. I am using a combination of the kit figures and some additional ones to bring the ship to life when it will be completed. Never having painted figures before I had to learn some new techniques, practise on bits and bobs and give it a go. Some came out better than others but I am particularly happy with the Captain who will probably end up adorning the upper bridge.
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In the absence of actual drawings I tried to think about how the area would be constructed and scribed the plate lines accordingly. Almost certainly curved plates would be separate from straight plates and an appropriate plate size was considered as about 6 ft by 2 ft. One of the doors was left open to give the area a bit of interest so the rear was boxed in to maintain the watertight integrity.
The anchor windlass was made according to the instructions and was finished in a semi-gloss black with a light degree of weathering. One point of interest is that I wore away the paint on the winch warping ends to look the same as a real unit. This is where experience of real ships pays tremendous dividends, as I have been lucky enough to see first hand how things look with normal wear and tear and how then weather over the years. I did a similar thing with the bollards, which will be finished with a crewmember and some realistic ropes as the model finishes.
Finally, as I work away from home for three months at a time, I always try to take the odd piece with me to continue the project. Such things as crew figures are ideal to work on in my cabin and keep the interest in the project. I am using a combination of the kit figures and some additional ones to bring the ship to life when it will be completed. Never having painted figures before I had to learn some new techniques, practise on bits and bobs and give it a go. Some came out better than others but I am particularly happy with the Captain who will probably end up adorning the upper bridge.
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G
Grief
Guest
More great pictures Bunkerbarge.
Are you going for the clean finish as apposed to the weathered look of the prototype.
The foredeck is really beggiining to look the part.
I have started cutting out deck parts for my Ben Ain to get a feel for it. Your pictures are a big help.
Keep posting
Chris
Are you going for the clean finish as apposed to the weathered look of the prototype.
The foredeck is really beggiining to look the part.
I have started cutting out deck parts for my Ben Ain to get a feel for it. Your pictures are a big help.
Keep posting
Chris
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
My intention with "Ben Ain" is to make it as realistic as possible. My ultimate goal is always to make a perfect miniature of the real thing at any one moment in time. I never achieve it but what is the point of an easily achievable goal? :shucks:
To this end I will be weathering and dirtying the ship in an attempt to obtain the realism. Years of plastic modelling experience help with this and I am hoping that the realistic exterior will dramatically contrast with the polished brass internals when the covers are removed.
As for weathering ship models I think it is so easy to get it wrong and spoil the model so a great deal of care and research has to be put into it before you embark down the path. I have listed a couple of relevent points of interest below:
1) Find as many pictures as possible and study them for the formation of rust and dirt. Look at the overall condition of the hull finish and at least identify what you are aiming for.
2) Think about how things were done in the period being investigated. A 1920's coaster was painted up by her crew who didn't have access to spray equipment so why do so many modellers spray the hull and strive for that perfect paint finish? I painted my hull with a small flat brush and varied the mix of matt and gloss paint while I was doing it. The idea was to generate a surface that looked like it had been brush painted over a number of years.
3) Think about how you are going to achieve the effect you are after. So many modellers use air brushes for weathering on model ships and it looks very unrealistic. Rust and dirt do not form as a fine dusting on ships. on hulls rust forms in vertical streaks and follows the path that the sea water normally runs and it is never only one colour. I do rust with a dry brush following where I would expect water to run and combine at least three colours. I have added a picture of a destroyer hull that I played around with a couple of years ago to show you what I mean.
4) Practise on numerous bits of scrap until you are happy that you are going to get the effect you are after.
5) Do not overdo it. There are many models out there that have been spoilt by over weathering and it is so easy to do too much in an attempt to get it right. I am the first to admit that I think the destroyer hull below is a bit excessive but that level will probably be right for the "Ben Ain".
6) Do all your weathering at the same time at the end of the model otherwise you will have areas of slighly differring colours and intensities.
As for the Mountfleet "Ben Ain" model care must be taken with the construction of the focsle bulkhead. The instructions say that you should fit the main deck then the focsle deck and finaly the bulkhead should be inserted as a prefabricated unit. I do think that this is the best way however the angle of the main deck is slighly less than that of the focsle. This means that the forward bulkhead is slightly taller than the aft bulkheads so fitting the prefabricated unit is tricky but it can be done by gently prising the focsle deck upwards. Use the plan to get the exact angles of the decks in relation to the vertical bulkheads and you should be rewarded with no horrible gaps when the prefabricated unit is slid in place.
I hope that this is of some use to you.
Richard
View attachment 13199
To this end I will be weathering and dirtying the ship in an attempt to obtain the realism. Years of plastic modelling experience help with this and I am hoping that the realistic exterior will dramatically contrast with the polished brass internals when the covers are removed.
As for weathering ship models I think it is so easy to get it wrong and spoil the model so a great deal of care and research has to be put into it before you embark down the path. I have listed a couple of relevent points of interest below:
1) Find as many pictures as possible and study them for the formation of rust and dirt. Look at the overall condition of the hull finish and at least identify what you are aiming for.
2) Think about how things were done in the period being investigated. A 1920's coaster was painted up by her crew who didn't have access to spray equipment so why do so many modellers spray the hull and strive for that perfect paint finish? I painted my hull with a small flat brush and varied the mix of matt and gloss paint while I was doing it. The idea was to generate a surface that looked like it had been brush painted over a number of years.
3) Think about how you are going to achieve the effect you are after. So many modellers use air brushes for weathering on model ships and it looks very unrealistic. Rust and dirt do not form as a fine dusting on ships. on hulls rust forms in vertical streaks and follows the path that the sea water normally runs and it is never only one colour. I do rust with a dry brush following where I would expect water to run and combine at least three colours. I have added a picture of a destroyer hull that I played around with a couple of years ago to show you what I mean.
4) Practise on numerous bits of scrap until you are happy that you are going to get the effect you are after.
5) Do not overdo it. There are many models out there that have been spoilt by over weathering and it is so easy to do too much in an attempt to get it right. I am the first to admit that I think the destroyer hull below is a bit excessive but that level will probably be right for the "Ben Ain".
6) Do all your weathering at the same time at the end of the model otherwise you will have areas of slighly differring colours and intensities.
As for the Mountfleet "Ben Ain" model care must be taken with the construction of the focsle bulkhead. The instructions say that you should fit the main deck then the focsle deck and finaly the bulkhead should be inserted as a prefabricated unit. I do think that this is the best way however the angle of the main deck is slighly less than that of the focsle. This means that the forward bulkhead is slightly taller than the aft bulkheads so fitting the prefabricated unit is tricky but it can be done by gently prising the focsle deck upwards. Use the plan to get the exact angles of the decks in relation to the vertical bulkheads and you should be rewarded with no horrible gaps when the prefabricated unit is slid in place.
I hope that this is of some use to you.
Richard
View attachment 13199
G
Grief
Guest
Hi Richard.
I know what your saying about the decks. I have been playing around with them to make sure i get the correct heights and angles. So far I have the quarter deck set and have fixed the bearers. I have taped the other decks into place to check the positioning
looking at the pictures of Doris Thomas the coasters bow should sit up higher compared to the stern when unladed. Then presumably as she was loaded the bow begins to sit lower in the water. Rather than the whole ship being flat in the water loaded and unloaded. Sorry if its a daft question I want to get the dynamics of loaded and unloaded correct.
I want to look at creating a fake cargo hold with removable boards. It would be nice to have a cargo in there when the boards are removed. The hatch is one of the stunning featurs of Ben Ain.
I see what your saying about the weathering. The dirt that runs down from the earlty coasters and does follow the way the waters would runs. The rust around the anchor and around the plating on the destroyer look very realistic
I'm tempted at this stage to turn this model into the Doris Thomas and go for the 1920's look. The lack of colour pictures is the only drawback. The Ben Ain does have a nice distinct colouring though.
Keep Posting
Cheers
Chris
I know what your saying about the decks. I have been playing around with them to make sure i get the correct heights and angles. So far I have the quarter deck set and have fixed the bearers. I have taped the other decks into place to check the positioning
looking at the pictures of Doris Thomas the coasters bow should sit up higher compared to the stern when unladed. Then presumably as she was loaded the bow begins to sit lower in the water. Rather than the whole ship being flat in the water loaded and unloaded. Sorry if its a daft question I want to get the dynamics of loaded and unloaded correct.
I want to look at creating a fake cargo hold with removable boards. It would be nice to have a cargo in there when the boards are removed. The hatch is one of the stunning featurs of Ben Ain.
I see what your saying about the weathering. The dirt that runs down from the earlty coasters and does follow the way the waters would runs. The rust around the anchor and around the plating on the destroyer look very realistic
I'm tempted at this stage to turn this model into the Doris Thomas and go for the 1920's look. The lack of colour pictures is the only drawback. The Ben Ain does have a nice distinct colouring though.
Keep Posting
Cheers
Chris
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Chris,
Just think of the ship as your fibre-glass shell sat in the bath. When it is loaded the downwards forces acting on the hull are the main machinery which is all located aft so the centre of gravity of the mass would be somewhere below the funnel area, plus the cargo, located below the main hatch so the centre of gravity would be somewhere in the area of the centre of the hatch. The resultant centre of gravity would be somewhere in the centre of the vessel.
As you unload the cargo the resultant centre of gravity moves aft until, when unloaded, the only downwards force is from the main machinery. The resultant centre of gravity is now somewhere below the funnel.
The hull is designed to be at its most efficient at it's loaded condition as the ship is expected to be in this situation for the majority of its life. An empty ship isn't making any money so that was avoided at all costs. Larger and more modern ships are fitted with a ballast system to compensate for this effect but 1920's coasters were pretty basic in thier design.
Consequently, as you say, when the ship is unloaded the bow is a lot higher out of the water than the stern. In this condition the propeller and rudder are usually not fully submerged and so neither are working at thier most efficient. I have deliberately ballasted my Ben Ain to put her right down to her marks at which level she is suprisingly manoeuverable. The only trouble there is that she weighs in at about 2 stone 2 pounds, which takes a bit of lugging around.
I am just about to go back to work for three months so all building will be halted for a while. I expect when I get back that you will be further ahead than I am!! Post some pictures at some point or even start your own thread so we can see how it is going.
All the best
Richard
Just think of the ship as your fibre-glass shell sat in the bath. When it is loaded the downwards forces acting on the hull are the main machinery which is all located aft so the centre of gravity of the mass would be somewhere below the funnel area, plus the cargo, located below the main hatch so the centre of gravity would be somewhere in the area of the centre of the hatch. The resultant centre of gravity would be somewhere in the centre of the vessel.
As you unload the cargo the resultant centre of gravity moves aft until, when unloaded, the only downwards force is from the main machinery. The resultant centre of gravity is now somewhere below the funnel.
The hull is designed to be at its most efficient at it's loaded condition as the ship is expected to be in this situation for the majority of its life. An empty ship isn't making any money so that was avoided at all costs. Larger and more modern ships are fitted with a ballast system to compensate for this effect but 1920's coasters were pretty basic in thier design.
Consequently, as you say, when the ship is unloaded the bow is a lot higher out of the water than the stern. In this condition the propeller and rudder are usually not fully submerged and so neither are working at thier most efficient. I have deliberately ballasted my Ben Ain to put her right down to her marks at which level she is suprisingly manoeuverable. The only trouble there is that she weighs in at about 2 stone 2 pounds, which takes a bit of lugging around.
I am just about to go back to work for three months so all building will be halted for a while. I expect when I get back that you will be further ahead than I am!! Post some pictures at some point or even start your own thread so we can see how it is going.
All the best
Richard
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G
Grief
Guest
Thanks Richard.
Have a good trip
Chris
Have a good trip
Chris
F
frenchie
Guest
Hi Bunkerbarge, I'm new to this shipbuilding thing but was impressed by your "Ben Ain" been following your build so far, Have just recieved my Ben Ain so will be following your progress (gonna need all the help I can get), so keep posting please.
Regards Mark
Regards Mark
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Hi Frenchie,
Firstly a very warm welcome to the Scale Models forum. I'm glad you found the thread interesting and usefull. There are actually two of us building this model at the moment who are members so we should hopefully be able to share ideas amongst ourselves. The other member uses the ID "Greif" as you may have already realised from the replies in this thread.
I am stuck with the challenge of only being able to build my model when I am at home as I currently work three months away and then have two months at home. Consequently it sort of progresses in fits and starts and probably takes a good bit longer than it will for others. It has actually taken me well over two years so far but a great deal of that has been spent on the steam plant.
I will be posting another progress report in the not too distant future with this leaves work added. I am now working on the bridge area but, as always the progress is slow!
If you are on the look out for information let me know as I have collected some usefull resources and, as I live very close, had the opportunity to photograph the Mountfleet model in his showroom when I bought the kit so I have a set of pictures that provide usefull reference.
I look forward to seeing your build start.
All the best
Richard
Firstly a very warm welcome to the Scale Models forum. I'm glad you found the thread interesting and usefull. There are actually two of us building this model at the moment who are members so we should hopefully be able to share ideas amongst ourselves. The other member uses the ID "Greif" as you may have already realised from the replies in this thread.
I am stuck with the challenge of only being able to build my model when I am at home as I currently work three months away and then have two months at home. Consequently it sort of progresses in fits and starts and probably takes a good bit longer than it will for others. It has actually taken me well over two years so far but a great deal of that has been spent on the steam plant.
I will be posting another progress report in the not too distant future with this leaves work added. I am now working on the bridge area but, as always the progress is slow!
If you are on the look out for information let me know as I have collected some usefull resources and, as I live very close, had the opportunity to photograph the Mountfleet model in his showroom when I bought the kit so I have a set of pictures that provide usefull reference.
I look forward to seeing your build start.
All the best
Richard
F
frenchie
Guest
Hi Richard, this will be my first ship it was a birthday present I had a choice but decided on this one on the strength of your posting so it's all your fault, (tee hee), anyway due to the cost mine will be electric, I have got a copy of "Steam coasters" by C V Waine as recomended by Frank at Mountfleets which may help but I would like as many pics as I can lay my hands on, a pictures worth a thousand words so they say, anyway thanks for the welcome Richard many thanks speak to you soon best wishes Mark.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Well I have to admit to feeling quite honoured that I have inspired you to buy the same ship.
I do confess though that I have sometimes wondered about the choice of steam plant for the propulsion. I am sure it will be worth it in the end but it has taken vast amounts of time, money and effort to get it together. The model has also required a considerable additional amount of work to accommodate it which has slowed the project down considerably.
You have certainly already obtained the best source of additional information in the form of the CV Waine book but I have also purchased a number of other books by the same author. They do not necessarily give ship specific information but do supply a wealth of additional pictures and drawings that I have used on the model. One such item was the correct layout of the rivets on the hull plating and another was the arrangement of the bulwark stays, which I didn't think were particularly realistic as per the kit.
Another invaluable source of information are from period pictures. One of the most usefull I found on a site called Rhiw.com. You will even find a picture there of the Ben Ain as the Doris Thomas which provided a couple of interesting points that I will be using. I also found a usefull period shot of the inside of a hatch that I will be using to complete the hatch of the model.
Anyway good luck with your kit, if you want a CD with the Mountfleet model pictures on it send me a PM with your address on it and I'll get one off to you.
I do confess though that I have sometimes wondered about the choice of steam plant for the propulsion. I am sure it will be worth it in the end but it has taken vast amounts of time, money and effort to get it together. The model has also required a considerable additional amount of work to accommodate it which has slowed the project down considerably.
You have certainly already obtained the best source of additional information in the form of the CV Waine book but I have also purchased a number of other books by the same author. They do not necessarily give ship specific information but do supply a wealth of additional pictures and drawings that I have used on the model. One such item was the correct layout of the rivets on the hull plating and another was the arrangement of the bulwark stays, which I didn't think were particularly realistic as per the kit.
Another invaluable source of information are from period pictures. One of the most usefull I found on a site called Rhiw.com. You will even find a picture there of the Ben Ain as the Doris Thomas which provided a couple of interesting points that I will be using. I also found a usefull period shot of the inside of a hatch that I will be using to complete the hatch of the model.
Anyway good luck with your kit, if you want a CD with the Mountfleet model pictures on it send me a PM with your address on it and I'll get one off to you.
N
Nigel.D
Guest
Richard it does lok the dogs danglies if i could suggest when weathering less is more!!! but a lot of people forget about the build up of green slime and algae that seems to cling to slow moving boats 
)
)
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
To be honest Nigel, from what I have seen of period pictures, if I made it absolutely realistically the model would look a bit of a mess!
I have been convinced for a long time that the main key to the success of weathering is knowing when to stop!
I have been convinced for a long time that the main key to the success of weathering is knowing when to stop!
F
frenchie
Guest
Hi would love the pics on the cd only problem is I am also new to forums so do not know about p/m's, took me quite a while to work out how to post a message ! Mark
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Mark,
Never be afraid to ask, I'm still relatively new to it all as well.
Never be afraid to ask, I'm still relatively new to it all as well.
F
frenchie
Guest
I think i've sent you a PM but I'm not sure if you will get it? Mark!
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
PM recieved, well done! CD on its way today.
F
frenchie
Guest
Many thanks Richard, let you know when I get it.
Regards Mark.
Regards Mark.
N
Nigel.D
Guest
less is more 100% of the time
F
frenchie
Guest
Hi Richard, many thanks for the pics cd got it on saturday but been away over the weekend so only just seen them, They will be a great help, now I will have to get started on the thing, speak to you again soon.
Regards Mark.
Regards Mark.