B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Glad to be of help Mark. I look forward to your updates.
All the best
Richard
All the best
Richard
T
tigertc
Guest
Wow, a truly awesome model Bunk.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Thanks Tiger
N
new to trains
Guest
i have a 1 to 24th scale puffer half built, i too will give the riveting a go, i have been putting it off !- but your pictures inspire !- the mad thing is i have used the cyano gel for this purpose before ( for rivets on a lifeboat )and also to replicate thick solid seam welds on the pressure vessel of my research submersible- but all those little dots AAAHHHH !
need to buy in some activator for the job !
need to buy in some activator for the job !
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Guy,
It probably took most of my spare time for a week, mainly as I discovered that the rivets were in double runs, but the result is a world apart from what I started with. Well worth the effort.
It probably took most of my spare time for a week, mainly as I discovered that the rivets were in double runs, but the result is a world apart from what I started with. Well worth the effort.
N
new to trains
Guest
ahh, there we go ' most of my spare time for a week'...... i have two kids under school age- I have NO spare time !
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Guy,
This is something that you can do over whatever period of time you want. You can pick up the Cyano and do a quick half an hour whenever you feel like it so don't be put off.
Also remember your puffer hull is a lot smaller than my coaster so you have a lot less to do.
Also I learned that putting the cyano directly onto the fibre glass didn't work as it was absorbed into the surface. If, however, you seal the surface with a coat of primer (Halfords best) then apply the cyano gel it 'beads' a lot more effectively.
This is something that you can do over whatever period of time you want. You can pick up the Cyano and do a quick half an hour whenever you feel like it so don't be put off.
Also remember your puffer hull is a lot smaller than my coaster so you have a lot less to do.
Also I learned that putting the cyano directly onto the fibre glass didn't work as it was absorbed into the surface. If, however, you seal the surface with a coat of primer (Halfords best) then apply the cyano gel it 'beads' a lot more effectively.
N
new to trains
Guest
the hull is in primer already..... so will give it a go !- will let you know how i get on !
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
I only recently realised that I didn’t post an update on the progress of the Ben Ain during my last leave so I thought I had better put that right.
It always makes me smile when models always seem to go through the same Six Phases of a Project that we consider for any other work namely:
1. Enthusiam
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and honors for the non-participants
Well last leave I had a bit of panic and certainly a bit more of disillusionment!
The disillusionment comes from the fact that you realise that you are over two years into the project and you still haven’t got both decks on the thing coupled with the fact that everything you do seems to take so much longer than was originally anticipated.
The next big step was not just putting the wheelhouse together but designing a construction that could be removed to gain the best access to the steam plant. An electric motor would be relatively straightforward to fit, remove and tinker with but a steam plant really has to be lifted out as an entirety with its base for running on the bench, cleaning, fettling etc. When I fitted the aft deck it soon became apparent that the main beam at the forward end of the aft deck had to remain in place to keep the sides of the hull at the correct distance apart and rigid so I made a couple of modifications to allow the plant to hook below this and fit in place without needing it to be removed.
This gave me a basis for the wheelhouse assembly as I had a flat vertical bulkhead at the forward end and the aft end of the wheelhouse. My idea was to make a complete wheelhouse assembly that fitted over the boat and incorporated the upper portion of the hull where it rises to meet the flying bridge supports, the wheelhouse, flying bridge and accommodation housing.
I started of with holding two vertical bulkheads in guides against the existing bulkheads and manufactured an assembly that hooked over the top of the existing bulkheads. I then had the forward and aft bulkheads in place. These were then joined with longitudinal beams, with braces, to hold the two bulkheads together. I now had the basis of a removable assembly. This would slide vertically out of the boat as a, hopefully, rigid assembly and when in the boat would all be held firmly in place by the bulkhead guides fitted to the ship.
Now I needed to build on this foundation. I added a few more stiffeners and then planked the bridge deck across the camber with 0.5 mm spacers cut from plasticard between each plank. When the planking was complete I mixed up my powder paint and PVA “Caulking” and spread it over the deck and well into the plank gaps. Next came the laborious task of rubbing it all down again to the bare wood, hopefully leaving a nicely caulked deck when it is done. When this was sealed I decided to strengthen the underside a bit more by sealing it with a coat of resin, which when set gave me an assembly which did actually slide out of the guides and would seem to be quite strong when it is off the boat. The camber helps with this strength, as will the wheelhouse and flying bridge assembly when they are added.
The nest step of the process was to start to put the wheelhouse together. This was a sub assembly that I made on the bench and, as always I just do not seem to be able to make the thing according to the instructions. Consequently mine has internal wainscoting, a shelf around the window frames, flag locker and chart table. It will also, of course, be fitted with a binnacle and telegraph and all the other detailed little bits and bobs that will bring it to life.
The attached pictures show the process of putting together the wheelhouse assembly as far as it has gone so far. There is still a lot of work to go into this one particular piece but now I can at least see what I wanted to achieve with it. Painting it will have to be done very carefully as I cannot afford anything to warp or increase in thickness so I think it will be a couple of coats and a gentle rubbing down. I think I will then lubricate the guides with wax to ensure a smooth operation for, hopefully, longer than I will be doing it for.
I hope there is a bit of interest for some of you there. Next time home I would like to get the vast majority of the wheelhouse assembly finished but, amongst all this, I also have the Revell U-Boat to finish, a Flying Styro Me109 to put together and a couple of jobs around the house if Annette has her way!!
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It always makes me smile when models always seem to go through the same Six Phases of a Project that we consider for any other work namely:
1. Enthusiam
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and honors for the non-participants
Well last leave I had a bit of panic and certainly a bit more of disillusionment!
The disillusionment comes from the fact that you realise that you are over two years into the project and you still haven’t got both decks on the thing coupled with the fact that everything you do seems to take so much longer than was originally anticipated.
The next big step was not just putting the wheelhouse together but designing a construction that could be removed to gain the best access to the steam plant. An electric motor would be relatively straightforward to fit, remove and tinker with but a steam plant really has to be lifted out as an entirety with its base for running on the bench, cleaning, fettling etc. When I fitted the aft deck it soon became apparent that the main beam at the forward end of the aft deck had to remain in place to keep the sides of the hull at the correct distance apart and rigid so I made a couple of modifications to allow the plant to hook below this and fit in place without needing it to be removed.
This gave me a basis for the wheelhouse assembly as I had a flat vertical bulkhead at the forward end and the aft end of the wheelhouse. My idea was to make a complete wheelhouse assembly that fitted over the boat and incorporated the upper portion of the hull where it rises to meet the flying bridge supports, the wheelhouse, flying bridge and accommodation housing.
I started of with holding two vertical bulkheads in guides against the existing bulkheads and manufactured an assembly that hooked over the top of the existing bulkheads. I then had the forward and aft bulkheads in place. These were then joined with longitudinal beams, with braces, to hold the two bulkheads together. I now had the basis of a removable assembly. This would slide vertically out of the boat as a, hopefully, rigid assembly and when in the boat would all be held firmly in place by the bulkhead guides fitted to the ship.
Now I needed to build on this foundation. I added a few more stiffeners and then planked the bridge deck across the camber with 0.5 mm spacers cut from plasticard between each plank. When the planking was complete I mixed up my powder paint and PVA “Caulking” and spread it over the deck and well into the plank gaps. Next came the laborious task of rubbing it all down again to the bare wood, hopefully leaving a nicely caulked deck when it is done. When this was sealed I decided to strengthen the underside a bit more by sealing it with a coat of resin, which when set gave me an assembly which did actually slide out of the guides and would seem to be quite strong when it is off the boat. The camber helps with this strength, as will the wheelhouse and flying bridge assembly when they are added.
The nest step of the process was to start to put the wheelhouse together. This was a sub assembly that I made on the bench and, as always I just do not seem to be able to make the thing according to the instructions. Consequently mine has internal wainscoting, a shelf around the window frames, flag locker and chart table. It will also, of course, be fitted with a binnacle and telegraph and all the other detailed little bits and bobs that will bring it to life.
The attached pictures show the process of putting together the wheelhouse assembly as far as it has gone so far. There is still a lot of work to go into this one particular piece but now I can at least see what I wanted to achieve with it. Painting it will have to be done very carefully as I cannot afford anything to warp or increase in thickness so I think it will be a couple of coats and a gentle rubbing down. I think I will then lubricate the guides with wax to ensure a smooth operation for, hopefully, longer than I will be doing it for.
I hope there is a bit of interest for some of you there. Next time home I would like to get the vast majority of the wheelhouse assembly finished but, amongst all this, I also have the Revell U-Boat to finish, a Flying Styro Me109 to put together and a couple of jobs around the house if Annette has her way!!
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B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Well the Ben Ain didn’t progress a great deal during my last leave, mainly as I wanted to complete the revel U-Boat so that at least I could say I had finished something.
I did however progress the bridge unit a little and, although it doesn’t look like a great deal I actually progressed it in such a way as to be able to be very pleased that some of the tricky bits and ideas actually worked.
The whole issue with the bridge is that it has to be a removable unit, unlike the kit intentions. To this end I have been building up the unit on the ship in such a way as to be able to slide it neatly off the decks and have a strong but light piece that sits securely on the model. The thing that has taken a lot of time patience and perseverance is the way in which the removable piece interfaces with the model. Just to keep it complicated research suggests that the design of the kit bridge deck bulwarks is not accurate either so that had to be considered.
The next job was actually to recover the original planked deck with another layer of planks. I did this as I was not happy with the finish of the original planks as I had laid them on a not very strong backing, not realizing that they would not sand down evenly to remove the caulking. Consequently I first of all replanked the decking over the top of the original which worked considerably better and I had a nice deck surface to work with.
Next I was very lucky to find a book at a book stand at Doncaster Model Show which was a history of the Ramsey Steamship Company, who operated the Ben Ain for a number of years and which contained three photo’s of the ship. These photo’s helped me to design the arrangement of the bulwarks to fit to the deck and helped to clarify the arrangement of the area.
First though I needed to progress the bridge housing itself as this had to be taken to a stage whereby it could be fitted to the bridge deck. It is considerably easier to fit detail into the bridge before it is glued down so I worked on the flag locker, chart table and internal painting. The flags are actually real signal flags in paper, rolled up and inserted into the locker so the correct colours are actually visible in the correct holes. The inside was painted and the wood varnished and the window frames were fitted before shaping the top edge to follow the correct contour of the flying bridge deck to be fitted above.
One thing the pictures showed quite clearly was the way in which the bridge deck bulwarks lean in and how the bulwark capping rail meets it at either end. I fitted the bulwarks, cut from ply, then added a forward bulwark stay and a centre bulwark stay before actually cutting away the ply rear bulkhead. This ensured that the aft bulkhead was cut away in just the correct shape leaving the opening for the ladder to be added later. This bulkhead will be further cut away when the bridge is finally fitted to leave a perfectly shaped and strong support for the whole piece.
So that was really about as far as I got. I am now very happy that the removable piece matches up very neatly with the hull and the bulwarks look a lot more like the real thing than the kit suggests. I have had a lot of uncertainty up until now as to how the piece was going to be constructed so to see the bridge unit fitted with bulwarks and looking as I wanted it has given me quite a renewed sense of enthusiasm so I am really looking forward to getting back next time and progressing the model a bit more.
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N
Nigel.D
Guest
Wow richard that looks awsome a great bit of highly skilled workmanship
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
Thanks Nigel, To be honest I feel like I am scratchbuilding even though I started out with a kit.
Most of it is application of common sense, lots of patience and lots of thought and planning. From what I have seen a lot of model boats seem to be either very competently put together technically but with not much attention to the detail of the model or a really nice model that isn't very reliable technically.
I am hoping that with my background of plastic modelling combined with my engineering knowledge I will be able to combine the two and produce a very accurate and realistic model that also performs reliably.
Thats the thoery anyway!!!
Most of it is application of common sense, lots of patience and lots of thought and planning. From what I have seen a lot of model boats seem to be either very competently put together technically but with not much attention to the detail of the model or a really nice model that isn't very reliable technically.
I am hoping that with my background of plastic modelling combined with my engineering knowledge I will be able to combine the two and produce a very accurate and realistic model that also performs reliably.
Thats the thoery anyway!!!
wonwinglo
SMF Supporter
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- Barry
It has aken me a while to catch up with this thread,but I would just like to say what a great subject this is and shaping up nicely,the rolled flags look super sitting in those pidgeon holes.
Never under estimate how much time that detail work eats up,the basic shell of anything can be fabricated fairly quickly and is straightforward,but these little details which really make the model are the ones that you can literally spend hours on,but the challenge to do them,and especially if they turn out well is more than reward for the labour of love given to any model.
Never under estimate how much time that detail work eats up,the basic shell of anything can be fabricated fairly quickly and is straightforward,but these little details which really make the model are the ones that you can literally spend hours on,but the challenge to do them,and especially if they turn out well is more than reward for the labour of love given to any model.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
I completely agree Barry. That is precisely why I have got to the trouble of making seperate hatch bioards for the hatch instead of fitting the pre-printed ply overlay and why I am laying decks from individual planks instead of using the same overlays.
The differrence is very significant but the time involved is many many hours against 15 minutes!!! I am sure it will be worth it in the end.
The differrence is very significant but the time involved is many many hours against 15 minutes!!! I am sure it will be worth it in the end.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
...and that's all part of why it has taken nearly three years so far. Give or take the odd other small project!
wonwinglo
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Richard,I think that sometimes a part that looks difficult to build,can sometimes be better tackled by building up from smaller items anyway,it can beome a bit of a jigsaw puzzle at times and perhaps fiddly,but once you jig everything together a bit of sanding pulls everything into place,and finally the vital paintwork and varnishing to add that finishing touch.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
The removeable bridge section was built in stages and as i was happy with one part i progressed from there. It all started with two planks on either side that sat on top of each other and was where i knew I wanted my joint to be.
They therefore had to be flat and mate together so I put them on. I then made guides and fitted the forward bulkhead and then more guides and fitted the aft bulkhead and the whole unit was very carefully built up thinking constantly how the finished item was going to lok and how it was going to work. I can't beleive the amount of hours that has gone into the thinking and planning of this section and it now looks so simple!!
The first deck planking didn't work and I did that just before I came away last time so I was actually feeling quite negative about the whole project. I therefore went back a stage and replanked the deck before going forward again and the peice eventually came together just how I wanted it. I now actually feel very positive about it and can't wait to progress it.
As you say I am getting quite excitied about getting some paint and varnish on it but, once again the process has to be thought through. I wanted to varnish the deck when I had fitted it but then, of course, the items to be glued to it wouldn't key as well. Consequently I will be varnishing the deck only after I have fitted the bridge and its components and the forward windbreaker which is then going to make rubbing down quite difficult.
I also have to think carefully about the order in which I put the bridge together because as soon as it is glued down it becomes more difficult to work on and yet I don't want to cut the aft bulkhead until it is glued in place to ensure a perfect joint.
It certainly keeps the grey matter in shape!
They therefore had to be flat and mate together so I put them on. I then made guides and fitted the forward bulkhead and then more guides and fitted the aft bulkhead and the whole unit was very carefully built up thinking constantly how the finished item was going to lok and how it was going to work. I can't beleive the amount of hours that has gone into the thinking and planning of this section and it now looks so simple!!
The first deck planking didn't work and I did that just before I came away last time so I was actually feeling quite negative about the whole project. I therefore went back a stage and replanked the deck before going forward again and the peice eventually came together just how I wanted it. I now actually feel very positive about it and can't wait to progress it.
As you say I am getting quite excitied about getting some paint and varnish on it but, once again the process has to be thought through. I wanted to varnish the deck when I had fitted it but then, of course, the items to be glued to it wouldn't key as well. Consequently I will be varnishing the deck only after I have fitted the bridge and its components and the forward windbreaker which is then going to make rubbing down quite difficult.
I also have to think carefully about the order in which I put the bridge together because as soon as it is glued down it becomes more difficult to work on and yet I don't want to cut the aft bulkhead until it is glued in place to ensure a perfect joint.
It certainly keeps the grey matter in shape!
wonwinglo
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Richard,so will you be able to remove the steam plant as a module itself for servicing ? I remember fitting the Meccano/Mamod steam plant to a block setting crane,after a few demonstrations it was plant out,clean surrounding structure,WD40 protection,plant in again,the way the parts would rust up so quickly made me think,the problem was condensed water getting underneath the steam plant chassis,I know that your model is made from wood etc but is this an issue ?
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
The boiler and engine came on a base plate but it was too big for my boat and I wanted to get the whole thing as far back as possible so I actually wanted the engine higher than the boiler. As it is I couldn't quite get it back as far as I wanted it so I had to make a new funnel with an offset in it.
I therefore tailor made a base plate from brass with a step in it and mounted the boiler and engine on it. The idea is that this entire assembly will come out as one unit for maintenance and cleaning. All the pipework and fittings must therefore be accessible to allow this removal and I was originally intending having one large opening to enable this. I decided however that the hull required a longitudinal frame both at the fore and aft end of the bridge otherwise the fibre glass hull would flex and the bridge would never be a reliable fit.
Consequently the safety valve and the pressure gauge on the boiler have to be removed to be able to get the boiler assembly in and out but it is, as always, the best compromise.
Units such as this, with the best will in the world will always leak so allowances for this have to be built in. I am putting considerable efforts into modifying the boiler and engine to minimise these leaks but the boiler and engine must be easily and regularly removed to allow simple cleaning and fettling of the plant. I actually also picked up an identical engine on Ebay so I have the luxury of a spare that can be prepared on the bench while one is in service. All I have to do then remove the unit and change over the engines.
I will try to see if I have a few better pictures of the plant itself.
I therefore tailor made a base plate from brass with a step in it and mounted the boiler and engine on it. The idea is that this entire assembly will come out as one unit for maintenance and cleaning. All the pipework and fittings must therefore be accessible to allow this removal and I was originally intending having one large opening to enable this. I decided however that the hull required a longitudinal frame both at the fore and aft end of the bridge otherwise the fibre glass hull would flex and the bridge would never be a reliable fit.
Consequently the safety valve and the pressure gauge on the boiler have to be removed to be able to get the boiler assembly in and out but it is, as always, the best compromise.
Units such as this, with the best will in the world will always leak so allowances for this have to be built in. I am putting considerable efforts into modifying the boiler and engine to minimise these leaks but the boiler and engine must be easily and regularly removed to allow simple cleaning and fettling of the plant. I actually also picked up an identical engine on Ebay so I have the luxury of a spare that can be prepared on the bench while one is in service. All I have to do then remove the unit and change over the engines.
I will try to see if I have a few better pictures of the plant itself.
B
Bunkerbarge
Guest
As promised a few pictures of the developement of the steam plant.
The first two with the cream coloured base was how it was purchased. Since then I made the brass base, fitted a new funnel, rearranged a few of the fittings to make it easier to remove and sorted the plumbing.
There is actually more work to do with the development of the plant, which seems to be one of those things you are never quite happy with. I have made a copper saddle to fit between the gas tank and the seperator tank which I hope will warm up the gas tank and prevent it from cooling as the gas evaporates. I then need to fit a gas regulating valve in the line to control the gas outlet which I hope will be a lot more consistant than it has been so far.
I still have a few things to do to the plant to get it as I want it but I will get back to that when I have progressed the model a bit more.
Anyway it is a bit tight but the steam plant does now go in through the hole below the aft accommodation and it is possible to connect up all the pipes with only minimal amounts of swearing!!
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The first two with the cream coloured base was how it was purchased. Since then I made the brass base, fitted a new funnel, rearranged a few of the fittings to make it easier to remove and sorted the plumbing.
There is actually more work to do with the development of the plant, which seems to be one of those things you are never quite happy with. I have made a copper saddle to fit between the gas tank and the seperator tank which I hope will warm up the gas tank and prevent it from cooling as the gas evaporates. I then need to fit a gas regulating valve in the line to control the gas outlet which I hope will be a lot more consistant than it has been so far.
I still have a few things to do to the plant to get it as I want it but I will get back to that when I have progressed the model a bit more.
Anyway it is a bit tight but the steam plant does now go in through the hole below the aft accommodation and it is possible to connect up all the pipes with only minimal amounts of swearing!!
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